Leadership meeting (Thursday, 22 Mar 2018 - 6.30 pm) 

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[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:00:07]

let's have a good evening everyone has it six Thirty I think we should begin on a flight began by welcoming everyone has come this evening to listen to the leadership team meeting I understand that quite a few of people who come are interested in item a six so I suggest that we take that we swap the order so we swapped a 6 feet 8 5 so we take it at the beginning
so are there any apologies for absence
yes Councillor Hargreaves because his at al-Manara this evening
are there any declaration of interest
no OK
we have marked on our paper a private session here the exclusion of the press and the public but given that we haven't huge mount public presently it's night can I suggest that we do the the exempts appendices at the end of the meeting rather than the now because otherwise we have to keep people waiting
Great OK so the minutes of the leadership team meeting held on the 20 6th of February do we agree that they are a true and accurate record of what was said was great and you're happy that I should sign them as such
thank you
Kate
so I suggest we move on to page 86 the legal fees for the public inquiry and operation of North leak investigation David would you like to introduce us

[Cllr David Lindsay - 0:02:01]

[Cllr David Lindsay - 0:02:06]

profited from up let me introduce it briefly vision Grenfell public inquiries largest inquiry in history it requires us to give large numbers of documents spend own programme provide lots not information about Thirty million documents that are provided and
it is costing a lot of money because it's very resource intensive
that is all I have to say it's worth of specific questions the Director of law can answer them more fully

[ Emily Pykett - 0:02:43]

that is an awful thing Blair as benches as well as of right

[ Emily Pykett - 0:02:50]

it's true
as an ancient institution
i'm Tasneem Chopra than The Director of law circuit
and let's hope they at least 15 years are being asked to note that the legal fees incurred so far is about tickling 3 million which includes IT software costs second we estimate that we will need to spend a third that to point five million which is within the provision allocated budgeted by Finance for 18 19 so basically
you're being asked to agree to increase the upper limit to 5 million which would be over a two-year period now where we are spending the money on expanding three phases firstly the IT system
this IT system which was implemented within days after the tragic fire has captured for all the relevant documents
and there is an ongoing cost in maintaining the system we have captured about 14 million documents in the system but obviously the system only collects a document we have to have teams of people who go through going through each of the documents categorising giving them titles affected so that it's easy to find by subject matter etc so that's the first elements that IT costs the software ongoing costs and teams of people going through those documents looking at them and categorising them
second element of the cost is assisting the police in their criminal investigation although the police have complete access to the system and they can go through the system and look at any documents where Ashley practically helping police because we know what is what most relevant and we have provided about seven million documents to the police we didn't have to do this but by doing so we're actually expediting at the process and hopefully cutting down the amount of time the police might need to be their investigation obviously bigger want to double check what we've provided and do their own inquiry and make their own mind up that's why they have complete access to the system the third and this is where the bulk of the cost is going this is assisting the public inquiry legal team to the public and our legal team don't have direct access to the system the way it works is the inquiry team gives provides a list of documents for disclosure we then have to go to the system and teams of lawyers junior lawyers supervised by senior ministers retreat that document will then have to go through understand what it is put it in a logical format and then provide that Dr those documents in bundles to the public inquiry team there have been
Eight requests separate requests for disclosure and we have provided just under 8 million documents to the public inquiry team and the public inquiry team as I understand it as really appreciated the help that we are providing and then urged us not to have downloaded millions of documents without infrastructure etc so we are actually doing quite having to do quite a lot of work to make sense of the documents put them in
in a structured way and provide them in bulks and in bundles so predominantly the cost is being incurred to support the public inquiry process

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:06:21]

I hope they are sorry falls for one of my questions which was just I want to have a flavour of what the work felt like what people are

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:06:26]

actually doing for this money and what sort of people and whether we use a junior lawyers for this but you want events of that for me really I suppose if the leadership team said you we want to halve the cost of all of this what would the implications be where what what what would would suffer or not suffer as a result of that because this is a huge amount of public money

[ Emily Pykett - 0:06:47]

if the costs were to be half that we would have to promptly half 13 am so that it would take much much longer to go through the documents and to respond to the public inquiry team and you'll appreciate the public inquiry team has also been under pressure to expedite the hearing the hearing is likely to be starting and the May normally public inquiry's hearings take a lot longer to start because the document exercise takes place and that can take months and years as sometimes years makes typically but those years of time has been cut down and and the hearing is starting sooner than any other inquiry would have started an and to help it to expedite a timescale which is the expectation of everybody that we start sooner rather than later because it is such an important and important but also complex as Councillor Lindsey says and the complexity makes it more difficult and more costly but it's too it's to enable inquired to start sooner that we have to actually increase the number of people who have been through these documents processing the information in order to be providing them in a minute
timely fashion and we can quite short deadlines for this version

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:08:08]

it is not a supplementary to they are so are you prefer you satisfied that we are not using it sort of overqualified people to do jobs and that weird that we couldn't get some of these things done at a cheaper cost without employing lawyers for example in your professional

[ Emily Pykett - 0:08:24]

opinion is there any leeway there currently are using trainee barristers majority the Matangi barristers all very newly qualified barristers but the work that they do is then supervised by a senior solicitor from our external asked Leicester's firm DWF you definitely

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:08:41]

need a junior barrister you couldn't just have a administration person

[ Emily Pykett - 0:08:44]

to do it we could have had more senior barristers without the supervision from one person from the DUP yet for example team of and then we would not duplicate the work but that would be far more expensive so we are that's why we his instead of junior trainee barristers
and I don't think an adminstrative person Kurds without sort of legal training without understanding the context and the request that that's being made and could do this job as quickly as possible and as we're doing it completely

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:09:20]

just looking at the EU just to be left with a little bit about this I t package is again a disability is a lot of money and it's about half a billion pounds expenditure to date as to why this IT packages is enough to shelter in the rediscovery of a deep collaboration as to

[ Emily Pykett - 0:09:40]

what it is and why it's so expensive and so I am not a technical person there and this was there and this package that was recommended by our external sisters who are experienced in dealing with this type of work in public inquiry love to have been involved in the public inquiry so we couldn't have it wouldn't have been sufficient for us to simply rely on the Council's IT because we needed the independence we have that an external Plan A company that provides the software who manages the software and which is kind of come on to the Council system and captured the relevant document I don't know if that helps but it's its or it's the search software but it is provided independently of the Council and we also consulted the police when me are implemented and they were they came and had a look at what had been done in terms of doctrinaire capture and ever very satisfied that the integrity of the capturing of the document was was intact and that's why it is important that we continue to pay these people and the system for the system so that the integrity remain some intact

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:10:54]

I think it's very important that we the public inquiry gets under way as quickly as possible and I think it's very important to lots and lots of people in the bar that it does is wholly chance of getting any of this money back from the government as part of the inquiry costs as opposed to at falling to the concern Chelsea ratepayer essentially

[ Emily Pykett - 0:11:15]

and we don't know at this stage obviously we will be asking say the bill to try and make the case that it is an intrinsic part of the

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:11:26]

public inquiry are voluntary or let me know the fact we're expediting it and spending lots of money to do so I think is a good argument for four look into the wider public purse yes

[Cllr Emma Will - 0:11:41]

in fact just putting on for that he said the third part is at the

[Cllr Emma Will - 0:11:44]

public inquiry don't have direct access to the documents and they have to come to us and that includes in addition please just wondering does that have to be the case could they not have accessed and therefore the cost low with them and perhaps that would be better anyway that they were doing independently added I don't know

[ Emily Pykett - 0:12:00]

that's not for me to decide on all to advise on but it would be almost an impossible task it would be a mammoth task for the public inquiry team to be looked to RBKC council and all other parties there are five hundred plus core participants and so it is it is right and it is the norm in other public inquiry is that the parties involved provide information as requested by the public inquiry and remember the police also are able to provide information to the public inquiry and they may do so as well

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:12:39]

can I ask him a question has been lost took but at the cost of it

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:12:41]

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:12:44]

but I suspect a lot of are residents will want to know
that actually that the documents that were offering up or other documents that the inquiry wants and that we're not trying to hide anything or we're not trying to give some documents but not some others so I think we need said of a sort of confirmation from you that that's absolutely the case that we are doing exactly what we're asked and they were doing it in a proper way because actually it really matters that the that the inquiry has got the correct documents and

[ Emily Pykett - 0:13:25]

it's all done completely baffled absolutely it's we are responding to the requests were not simply saying if F the requests for X Y and Z were not simply just providing X Y and Z if we think There's A B and C is also relevant to that request and we were we are providing that information as well and we will continue to provide that we're also spending time in creating kilometers so that it's usually it's helpful or the work of artists to see and documents like that in addition to direct requests for pieces of dominant phone absolutely and you've made a clear and and this Council's objective is to assist the public inquiry up slowly to the truth of the matter and that's what we have instructed on ministers and our barristers at cheap to do to help in addition to that as I mentioned that police have complete access to all the documents that matter and they can ask for additional Duffen's if this so for example the system captures hatchet whole host of documents if there's an audit trail shows that as something that might not be there than that can be identified and systems and then we will need to go and search for that document and produce it supports for example it may be
at reply whether attachment is missing and if that can be easily found than we will go out and go into the system or elsewhere defined the document

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:14:56]

yes I think as people from the community of come tonight it's fair enough that there should be allowed to ask
a few questions and we start with them hearts may sulk metropolis of them were screaming so formed in 2 thousand 12
whilst we are given credence at 14 million documents and at Middle

[ Emily Pykett - 0:15:25]

School in documents from her course they 14 million is the amount of documents that we have captured in the system but all of them might not be relevant or they may be duplication eight million documents has been given to the public inquiry seven million to the photographer I was wondering why minutes spread over half a million requiring must

[ Emily Pykett - 0:15:47]

surely have enough drugs are going home well it's not harming they whether the inquiry team has enough documents we will simply respond to as many documents as they request and we anticipate their feathered that there that we still have outstanding requests at the moment we're processing another tranche of documents which we will supply to the inquiry team as we speak we're going through those and there may be further request as an Assembly should be IT packages 500 firms Renova ideas like the Forth Road Bridge of modern history all year I've under-fours
that's a fashionable among us quite a lot of money for 25 years
somewhere else says we have to use a fleecing us this is a lot of money for charity by one point what am I doing all of these items like a disability I'm buried you want to have more than met YA novels also employer as I've just recently on this issue because we don't know nanobots handles no and yes I will explain that in a way
in it we have very little choice we have a situation where we

[ Emily Pykett - 0:17:02]

absolutely have to and caster was as part of its emerging there has emerged already The all the documents 14 million but always there is a fast-growing hard drives
the value of the middle classes Coppersmith capital reserves
there is a church vicinity it is up here I think that what it is is is

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:17:24]

is making sure that every single document that might be relevant to the inquiry is captured and then if you can imagine if you have 14 million documents they need to be categorised so putting them in a in a format that that easily accessible rather than across the thing
if you are not ideologically Adobe Acrobat manages about 500 quake no help refuses Barkley is very very busy on the right but we don't actually know what it is this this half-life a report saying we don't want to do that the Head with more of the jobs are meant to do I just

[ Emily Pykett - 0:18:04]

asked him if he tells us it came in the paper doesn't I've just

[ Emily Pykett - 0:18:07]

explain I am happy to provide a more technical over detailed briefings obviously
marginalised people return available today you're about to reverse spending surely all this information should be here to hand right now and I am absolutely astounded that you're saying you're not young not technical experts who don't understand what this money is being spent on that's not what I said earlier there and if I were originally due to snow

[ Emily Pykett - 0:18:32]

attractive that she'd like to rip my Pete what you said yes if I can if I shall I repeat what I said if I could just finish and what I was trying to explain is that it's not an emerging defer system in itself it's as the leaders expect that is actually provides an intelligent function of being able to search documents it also enables us to categorise documents so that
as people are going through documents they can tag they can put it into different folders they can find it in different places there are many different ways of searching that it will enable us to do so we knew sufficient about this technical system to know that this is providing a very valuable and useful function it is enabling us to respond to queries from the police and also the public inquiry without that system we would not be able to do that
this distance as you say as the message are expensive and they are only one or two may persistence may be in the market which actually provide this kind of support and the police use it and I think if it's good enough for the police and that forensic investigation I think it should be good enough or are because I mean I wouldn't hold on hold on 0
that international governance
not one and there were times when I could find an information request from nine times now so are you saying that more complex previously when he responded to our lives and this is something I am as far as I

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:20:07]

understand that this is much more complicated than that and actually what we really want to do is to make available through millions of documents to the inquiry and for the public investigation for them to absolutely establish a conclusive view and deliver the truth I think everyone in this room wants to deliver the truth we want to find out what happened and we as a Council wants to be open and transparent and

[ Emily Pykett - 0:20:39]

Avon despite independence as well Leader because you know maybe our IT system can IT department could have done this job but it wouldn't have provided the independence that is expected and needed for this kind of process
i'm not smart
so I shall be incidental
I want to try his luck nothing bar opens claims I spot one on this
this is a constant trained by Willie Mossop
what's happening to their silence over the first 10 are off

[ Emily Pykett - 0:21:26]

I like this and so this was a decision we have to make very very quickly and there's only vary or this is days after the tragic fire so we had to say if I weren't we finished and we have to get the system
now I met amounts to the first question
your sister companies as key ones so the first question I have now lost a lot of the time why we had to do this
perhaps
decision very quickly and there were very few items

[ Emily Pykett - 0:22:06]

systems in the market that do this said this was a good system credible system an independent system that we got whether we can give you access to it now we would be breaching the law if we did that because they would be at dates along with otherwise any OK
expect yes report written during this votes yes
he was rather subversive as ever I will find out and let you know
Simon excuse me excuse me Soumya was expulsion feverishly frontman Simon Le Bon Iver unfulfilled patients caused by solving my question the ethical question of a conflict of interest are probably what on the face

[ Emily Pykett - 0:22:55]

and for our because they see a
I am yes because after after the parent and toddler certain of her and help victims here is to move towards reaching an understanding that we will be automatic heavily involved in the Department of Education in search of more and longer Fire Ship is trying to use it could be that you might have to push up interest involved in cabinet documents that question why questions not because I'm a Labour Group
I got both in life
we don't look at some point of interest is what you do with you to appoint an independent solicitor
the group as an opportunity said they were saving money I think you can have that team I used to have adjusted you have all these inspections and I wouldn't leave out loud and mostly with doing think was precisely what we mean by relevant you would not think that make this life so with volunteers is currently we haven't just cheating
online activity for three decades and sell them to cut it in part as

[ Emily Pykett - 0:24:09]

the cheapest so there is no conflict and we have external solicitors and barristers advising us on this that was the first question second wish it were not representing the Conservative party or the Labour party where was representing the Council as a corporate entity as a legal entity and there may be other different parties different administration that doesn't matter because it may be the council 5
obviously I had a discussion at certain ages wrong
give rise to liability and something that actually but I was like I'm just trying to park Alick Isaacs

[ Emily Pykett - 0:24:56]

to whom we give advice we give advice to the Council as a corporate body whoever is representing that so I think we have an in independent role here independent of parties yourself this Council
so I just like to

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:25:15]

the odd dislikes reiterate that we have as Council this administration has no interest in defending anything we are public authority and we want the truth and we need the truth for the bereaved survivors and actually we need the truth of the whole of the UK because we need to face up to issues a fair fire safety and safe housing across the country so I just liked me at her it from
you're forced that's under criminal investigation for safety's sake
what is whether or not President vacant homes and that was my question to Tasmania earlier was whether there was a conflict of interest and where the we was supplying all the documents that the police or the public inquiry were asking of us and one of the reasons that the that's so expensive

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:26:13]

is because actually we're supplying so many documents and we're doing so in a way with a bundled and are categorised to make it easier for the cow public inquiry and for it to be quicker so that we can win all of them
get the answers and the justice that everyone wants
can we expect I'd be fine disproportionate alone nor I want what I got seven points under Louis working vacations will now become mobile
I want to finish

[ Emily Pykett - 0:26:57]

and then just as that's what the report explains because then it's an act
on an emergency service in the names and addresses
arguably on question Time with outside BNP to Zero Zero Elijah's
as a lawyer I would expect you to
no honest I'm sorry did I say that world
the answer is no but has a living spaces for British Standard which relates to the evidence or white and legal admissibility or scandal

[ Emily Pykett - 0:27:40]

more electronic documents are their integrity and verification by the court system how how can you say the bloc's security system and you will have known the basics about what criteria this system has the meat and your second question I hazard
about legal fees are you going to pay more for your legal advice to people who were on legal aid to be allowed to pay you know what our only right that you've given your barristers is it more than the hourly rate that those who are only later actually an advocate of the inquiry and if the total amount that you're paying more than any of the survivors were allowed them and you really think that's fair and online in an open and honest way to access justice Johnny she goes on a fund that would be willing to work at legal aid rates for US aid on that amount rather than use the other new app
they took no action
0my days since the financial and can I say it's been it's been evident

[Mr Barry Quirk - 0:28:38]

tangle machines are it's been evident to me from the end of June that the critical thing and I think it's rose by aligning himself in several meetings the critical thing was the integrity of data capture at the very earliest stage that that was held by an independent organisation not by ourselves and that we had a system that enabled us to meet the duty of disclosure that we have as a public authority to actually describe the truth about documents and it will enable others to investigate them and I think that that's what as I understand it that this system does on what you're trying to achieve
I don't know how the British Standard relates to that very point out but you know what have you guys been here for three years prior to this when it comes to document storage and disclosure basically does it mean that we can never trust any FOI we've got and yet alone also sought information and received prior to the fire or any data

[Mr Barry Quirk - 0:29:40]

protection with no not also could say that they are they an FOI request was about a discrete piece about searching all of you document yes relevant not data-protection advice is about searching Molenbeek up not necessarily so it's about because you know that distinction is between a specific request discrete inquiry and a mess a multidimensional database about all manner of potential universe of inquiry's that's the fundamental difference
it had its day
I ask
and not I believe that today in this case it's all about the money and wouldn't it be one bit savers are a heck of a lot of money
if by some pressure was applied to former employees of a gig then Chelsea female and tackle the were now formally I'm pressure applied to them to just come forward and admit the GAA failings and mistakes they may grow human we all make mistakes
and don't take it from there because that would save us a love of all this expenditure
can I just say I think that's what the public inquiry is for because

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:31:06]

the public realise that too is snobbish George The Poet and the place like the cheapest materials on the grounds of The Sharp project I'm just offering another short
I think
what I was trying to say right at the beginning so I understand there is concern about the amount of money being spent but our priority is to make sure that the criminal of the police investigation and the public inquiry have all the evidence and all the documents that they need and then make that judgment
and as I'd just like to repeat as a public authority we are not here to defend anyone we are here to provide the documents so that judges can make that judgment
it if it's going if it costs a huge amount of money to do that we think that that's worth it because we want to ensure that everything that we're asked we respond in a very clear positive well holstered legs is a very clear way they have all the documents that they need to make the judgments because we believe that it's incredibly important any for our community to get justice but it is actually very important
the country to talk about regulation
i'm are already stopped we were going to be interviewed by the police so that goes on and representation that painful from this planet

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:32:55]

this has been discussed we haven't got a this is less about the inquiry and the evidence that they're asking us for and presenting it in a way that can be easily accessible
already document requirement on the greasy surface the Hampshire yes I set out several times I'm sorry she didn't mohair stalls were members of staff and Councillors from pounds-a-month have legal representation with the vagaries of decline last hasn't once he sighed the moment

[ Emily Pykett - 0:33:29]

there is no charges no if the police are investigating and we urge charges are said to favour interviewed by Grace then I agree then DVF are external solicitors are supporting us on both the public inquiry and the criminal proceedings if the member of staff wanted support than there would be a lawyer or an HR representative would be available and that is something that is normal in any
let's get tough

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:34:04]

all the time there's on the borough are paying lawyers Leader hydro
where can I just clarify

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:34:13]

where can I just clarify this budget and this key decision doesn't

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:34:18]

relate to individual representations for staff it relates solely to our active and swift support of the public inquiry and the police's investigation nicely and not to individual staff representation in that way
to agree a company that yardstick to group in what can we do about hybrid five years you name it every independent undue asking people from taxpayer money to pay them at the rate that hasn't gone without challenging nice not only form of integrated if I'd been in the market I was battling through what's the right can I was talking to funnel Sortilèges tells us
how some magic programme opener so you are playing for something I think finish
we wouldn't be in fourth and anticipated work that you can do which we don't know you haven't given us any clarity what I achieved and that if you look at what the inquiry's us they already have specifically that you want
all of this money has been spent on this programme might not even be given needed
we ask so you ought to give him money for something that's invisible we got to know even with that is going to be able to use or to be used for for the purpose of these images
that lets him know each estimate that hasn't responded to the question

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:35:54]

which is whether we interrogated these prices or whether we just accepted a people to be looked at various fans should we look at a low

[ Emily Pykett - 0:36:04]

so whereas value have any time to do a procurement process which takes a long time we have benchmarked the cost and it is very competitive hourly rate we don't allow any travel expenses we don't arrive any overnight hotel expenses which were
this summer
the best way forward
i'm just finish you ask the question this issue just like he replies said this gentleman had been dismissed as are based outside London which makes them cheaper than London firms and me are
to every bill that comes through and scrutinise the Bill's and make sure that there are accurate
what you said
in this Council saying something that is not true about how we pay our scenesters expenses drone companies we will go on and we are going to have a company that I represent I represent RBKC which is a public body which is run through taxpayers' money and this is about safeguarding taxpayers' money it is about making sure there's an efficient process so that party said that inquiry has all the information as soon as possible and using very flexible resources that very junior level with relevant supervision appropriate supervision because it's absolutely important that we do so of course yeah I'll say so
to find a husband we have now given us accept your words to fail all his money which is large so yes this is a very transparent report it is broken down by category of overspend and we have this leadership team has given us a blank cheque to noise to go and do their job but they are asking us to come back and ask for more money if we need and that need to and that's what we're doing and I think it is important that the inquiry team is supporting the project
i'm happy to have an issue especially queue outside them using lots of work
restrictions

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:38:25]

can I make a suggestion because I feel that
there are a lot of tax persons through who don't feel that
this enough detail in this report Sir can I ask Barry to come back on a monthly basis
so that we can check you know what the how much we're paying per month etc so we can interrogate it make that public and also really look at the speck of this without be possible barrier

[Mr Barry Quirk - 0:39:05]

can we just missed us agree we could change it seems to me that we are committed to this expenditure would on a track with this expenditure which have raised questions both about the sloth about this because I think it pitched just that don't go ask questions about the specification says not fully there enough said actually we should make it available to make it available but also I think we'd be willing to give public assurance about this expenditure and the release of it whether this is on a monthly basis or whatever basis it is then I aren't prepared to urge him to do that regular reports 8 by weekly or for weekly report on this expenditure to make sure we are bearing down we're not paying more than we ought to come up but I do think that this is something that is important for us we are under a duty of disclosure both general and particular to the inquiry and to the police and I don't want in any sense not to do that so I know it's not a blank cheque
if it was a blank cheque I wouldn't say I've forgotten Aisha Tyler driving should be a drive until you can't I'm afraid you compassion goes on as I said earlier I am absolutely astounded you didn't have a big US ideally to zero
for Isobel

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:40:28]

yes I am very shocked by that fact and not throwing billions of pounds ounces either as opposed to the events in line with this and you're already meant to comply with it I think that what we've heard what you'd have to say I think that's an we given this a good airing could I just finish this I'm that we've given this a very good airing tonight but the reality is we have had to make hundreds of thousands of documents available for the inquiry and for the Palestine police investigation in order for them to establish a conclusive view and to find the truth or unravel why I would ask my fellow leadership team members to agree to the recommendations in paragraph to do he agrees
the recommendations of her Gove too but then I would like to say we'd like to us
to request to bring to make sure that we see the figures and the speck going forwards with his catalogue is money has already been spent but we need to know I absolutely accept that your taxpayers and your residents and you need to have that level of detail going forward but for tonight I'd like to ask the leadership team to agree to the recommendations on paragraph 2 and then let very comeback with other specifically

[Mr Barry Quirk - 0:42:04]

boardwalks do we agree thank you and I will just come back to hear I will make you publish it in the public domain and it will be published in public
now I am fairly
or you haven't compounded an already volatile region
thank you

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:42:27]

I would just like to repeat we have knelt nodded this through we have listened to what you've had say Barry has taken a or not ignored but we want to make sure that there is just as we want to be open and transparent not defending anything we want to enable the public inquiry and subsequently the police investigation to have all the documentation they need in order to come to a judgement which we all in this room wants and not only us but everyone in the country needs it because we need to have a safe or housing and we need to have better regulation and now we need to also pass on to the other things on our agenda for which you are very welcome to stay for
we will go on to

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:43:22]

item a 0 comma 3 writes to me so we can we go to Item A5 yes I just said that it has been agreed to thank yous okay I too a fine
right
the Chair at 6 pm
thank you

[Cllr David Lindsay - 0:43:56]

members will be aware that it was a recent revaluation of non-domestic rates
this measure is an attempt by the government to provide business rate relief to those people most adversely affected
I think they might think he's on the can you speak up a bit
disrepute following will return following the recent revaluation of rates
the government has provided a measure of relief that you're really welcome here but we do have other business to continue

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:44:34]

scrutinised yes
I had the opportunity to scrutinise but we do have other stuff on the agenda and I understand that people here once come to the carnival paper
we will get there but if we can just get through this next item then we'll come on to the other things that you're interested in so please if you would just give us a bit of peace and that we care
night

[Cllr David Lindsay - 0:45:08]

to start again yes please following the recent revaluation in non-domestic rates the government providing a fund in order to make those companies who are struggling have an easier time and this current paper sets out how the how we are interpreting it so that we can make sure that all of the money that's been given to us our million pounds just over is actually allocated to those businesses that most needed

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:45:42]

a good news story and said is this is business three greats we got Emma we got a merry
I just want to walk compared off for 12 as he is very sensible that we

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:45:55]

allocate the money without the need to require companies to make an application that cuts out a whole layer of bureaucracy have clear are we that we can do that then we can capture all the the people who actually are entitled to this and allocate the funds and if not are we going to supplement it with some form of advertising to make sure we sweep up the others of sorry
this is right it's a button on the right and here I may need to marry

[ Emily Pykett - 0:46:26]

the Head of Business rates yes but what we have is all the data of all the accounts for business rates were able to look at them and the focus of our scheme has been on smaller local businesses have been affected by the revaluation of business rates
properties which took effect from the 1st of April and so the government is making one point 3 6 8 million pounds available this year and we are allocating the money to these businesses so a small business like a restaurant or shop or a cafe that is the rate of business with a rateable value of up to 28 thousand AM and the medium sized ones are between 28 thousand and One Hundred thousand there because we have less funding this year than we had last year we aren't going to go above the hundred thousand pounds rateable value threshold but we expect to help over nine hunky businesses because they have seen quite steep rate rises

[Cllr Mary Weale - 0:47:31]

to indicate my mother so criterion is rateable value so therefore you have all that information within your gift and therefore can make sure that the money goes to all the small businesses that would repeal the

[ Emily Pykett - 0:47:43]

qualifier they have to have had an increase we can't just give it because they're struggling but we have other rooms for that said to fame
i'm amid tomorrow I am a Bernard Haitink business primacy of investments and some that we need to get this money to small

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:48:00]

businesses before the end of the Finance Committee are that's a

[ Emily Pykett - 0:48:03]

separate thing we have money for the first year two thousand seventeen 18 and that that money has been allocated for that year this is new money for 18 19 which begins on the 1st of April thank you very much everyone

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:48:19]

question we've got local businesses that have been taking a long time
a two-month period would no longer arrows holding off they have suffered dramatic beginning of our local businesses it's their life like you
they are losing you know where you have to spend the money by general election next week on a graph yes I could hear him face real friends and clarifies the law because no creative and nobody's outfit could

[ Emily Pykett - 0:48:56]

you make you appear to have in paragraphs can magnify that even yet that money can only be given to people who have an increase due to revaluation because that was what our government
I obviously has not simply because there were ample chest
this is an easy chemistry
families and livelihoods have on corporate Core so you're going to say

[Cllr Will Pascall - 0:49:27]

that first we refer to the Mayor's Fund there the smallest contributor

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:49:30]

the main contributor results and in total weep and we put together

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:49:32]

five hundred thousand pounds of support I understand that it's you know and we have to keep supporting our small businesses in North Kensington that's our commitment to do that but I think it's wrong to say that we're not doing anything for small businesses because we have given if I may just finish it so certainly in terms of the package of support that we've got which is not just not just funding so that people can apply for but also oversee rates relief in terms of red relief on the immediate businesses that were affected as far as Lancaster West is concerned there's also another 80 thousand pounds which is for wider relief which I know is being done on consumer on a concession it amazes 80 thousand pounds yes said that that's where we have at the moment yes that's what we have at the moment
the law
so
Two months ago for too much here are my officers and our work by my feet I'm the first person he said
with right correctly I worked my way right and now I will say this I don't even want to if we thought it would be under a care worker I would go back to my work
we also know that I've never done that before and I want us all to you and all because of that line only go back on my word
myself and others are from there these days 0 let's not do this
or how you spoke in public view of the world some people to see the money again nodding sagely
mortgages out thank you

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:52:13]

thank you I think there are two things I think that's one thing about how I can help
businesses in North Kensington and that she came in I have met several businesses north Kensington and as Kim said we have been trying to do our best and we probably given more money than the Mayor surprised but this is a slightly different scheme where you realise why it's got to do with rates relief that we have to do things are moving to other lawyers
I don't care about your normal job I won't cure anything goes why period
I called It's All night
identical
because the first one you all here deserve public asked what happened should not Never forget orange in the pocket of one of his great we shouldn't go how prisons is to be screened on soft this important recovery now members before we forget we realize they bide their children's education
it's not incumbent on us but neither Osborne nor what should you first-borns you should be paw infinitely case if it because village and vegetables Tom area able Gear Lincolnshire why dessert is a poet and I want the foul and then the baby out of the community you haven't finished your posture
you're not doing your homework you know how to finish it and he thought about numbers you don't give up businesses while waiting in line with the struggle that is what you're waiting movies or hard hats US company that is one year point-to-pointing operational reasons why don't you want only one energy on an at-risk
people
why
there's you talking about coffee shop and the idea of a coffee shop coffee shop his skills if he is going to keep going when money is going to work he plays like he's going to sea bass in conflict during the day after the Fire will fortify you never calls you shop and get a coffee shop I care about lives I care about the trauma I care about the people who are blind
people are you forgetting locally about money is the second or third this is good this is a good time this is the reality is this is the second time I come here second meeting talking about one last time the last meeting you are popular 50 percent of the rent for people
and people still there are no more vast than that especially is a shame we here I shouldn't be in anyway why can they not because they could return on here is shouting for you in order for us to talk about the numbers because the KC hasn't been gross yet because people are sick and all those people who still believe the brutality Everett accommodated upset visual book about us on how we are all those hours cases Olchard do I put this should be reversed by diabetes this week I Want you So I know right now waiting for a second operation autocracies such as this one then it's not about me then many people got them focusing our Jesse then we should put the number of people going about artificial triple between Alcatraz Zipporah Charles Haley US this month
i'm sorry
it should be sorted out and we haven't done lawfully
in the amendment

[Mr Barry Quirk - 0:55:52]

some very powerful respectful very powerful points have been made there when we as an Authority are working very heavily O'Shea NHS and without us but at the moment we have at the end of this administration a number of really quite minor decision to make about things like this and I apologise to people if they feel this in some way trivialises a much bigger issue is what with having to do here is simply earned her a minimal trivial issue about one point four million of money that comes from Government we have to make a decision if we don't make a decision about this then some people lose out this is not going to go to chains companies like it's going to go to independent small businesses but I recognise that this is not a big issue compared to the enormous issue typically invest anything I just like to echo that

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:56:50]

I think we understand that there are many bigger issues
I know are facing all of you then what we're doing about business rates that we need just to take a few of these decisions and that doesn't in any way that the fact that obviously rehousing and helping people from the Grenfell community is our top priority but we just do have these administrators things that we need to get through
your phrasing is helping people who are wealthy is not about helping out
the job wasn't done properly in the first right before dying every day the cause of the fire is not just Seventy Two earlier hold the number the figure that we've been given every day somebody is dying they might well be guiding biologically but they are dying so lonely as loader ripe lesser numbers we should be looking at The Seventy Two seventy three those are the numbers we should be looking at not these big is OK I do understand you have a business to do or you have a business to get on with life but what's happening here is nothing has changed for us in the sense that no lessons have been learned so all the unsafe buildings before Grenfell has still onside often grateful to all of us most of us were living in TMO Council as still living that scenario right here trapped in thick drafts so what we call comprehensively out with all the money that was thrown into
how can we have seen no changes the changes are being so gradual and external way you or other entities have made decisions on what kind of changes should be made in our living conditions when we have not actually been asked because if I have a broken
I know about it you're not going to know that I would have broken down Williams are not overburdened I'm going about things as major as fire alarms and talking about big things I arrive so this is what we can't comprehend this was very difficult to fathom how is business as usual yet we have to talk about budgets with anyone but what is happening is the jobs are not being done as we speak this is what the trouble is today

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:59:15]

can I think that's a very fair question can I ask him to respond to that

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:59:21]

today's meeting today's meeting leadership meeting is obscene looking

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:59:24]

at specific things the points you raise with regard to the housing are things that we will do so we will have discussed and we will continue to discuss at the housing property scrutiny meeting on the first of March all of the management of the housing came back to RBKC and the housing property scooting meeting last week and I'm very happy to send you the papers we set out in very clear ways where we are with the repairs and it's not a good picture it's a terrible picture amid the figures that the TMO gave us in terms of outstanding repairs their figures were 3 thousand Five Hundred and clearly when if that's a TMO figure I knew it was going to be more and when we've done an audit on that at the moment and we're still going on their audit it's actually 3 thousand 8 hundred outstanding repairs and if you look at the number of pairs per property the time it is taking to appear to repairs it's appalling the figure that let me just finish please which is very smart
now please
please please I just want to finish and then miss out my question is that is that the dissatisfaction figure which we all knew when we were told it was 95 percent is 65 percent now all of those figures have been published there were published at the Scrutiny Committee meeting or what it allows us now because it's it's RBKC and we have scrutiny meetings which we didn't have a TMO we have the ability of you guys doing FA wise which we didn't have before is that you can then judge us on the point that you're making in terms of the repairs to your house no we will all week I'm sorry I can't comment because it's not really my area in terms of health
i'm just like that it gives us the opportunity at each of these meetings to publish the figures and you can then judges for what we're publishing and those because a proper figures are not big big big big fictitious figures that we've seen in the past so in terms of addressing your repairs we have no say in terms of addressing your repairs what we have done as a Council is we approved in the budget last week a hundred and 15 million pounds to repair our housing stock okay I'm but it is going to take time it is not going to happen overnight and we have to root we've Take that in terms of one step at a time
allowed
I was talking about
I mean
our mind
after saying that that's where we live are states Iran said a canister on specifically for faster if we commissioned a completely independent assessor to go round and do a proper fire assessment or all of the flats we have put within the budget at the moment just a provisional figure of 3 point five million pounds to address issues of fire doors which we obviously have to do but there is a programme that we would do and again we will be very transparent we would tell you what's happening we will publish the results because you're absolutely right fire-safety has are is our top priority has to be on top form
can we have one especially from somewhere and then we can get onto the carnival is currently sidelined with an agreement on the devil with a camera you can have the power to scrutinise the girl so early with no website no website currently scrutinising the Liberal Party parking management and President Sarkozy we submitted a report to you on Monday will make specific recommendations as long as you take when you leave and how to set up local management hall scrutiny powers and I've known
when we need them we need to text put me back to the local level to people like that
what do you think
I can't

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:03:28]

that other people here in sit in our deliberations on the Connell Village Trust so can I ask you to agree a recommendation to in this report and can we then turns pursue the next Fifa thank you
a say the next phase that is the decision
they play southern funding for Carnival Village Trust at Taberna 0 sorry yes
my emotions right now and how much this spring but what did you do when you know people in Grenfell was alive what can you do in the pool my fabric of their lives and all the others who lost their life while you do not know why you do know enough about the one thing I say I'm here
you it's just another matter for another day
what me and my family I thought
revellers out wide
I lost my mum my both my brothers and my sister anomaly rallies and of all the others that lived in the building as Lord Justice Gross does nothing for us it's just words that you come up with another day a couple more words and projects like why
what can you do it then
you have stopped what it couldn't you have done everything that you could give your power as a Council to save people's lives you like it
what are you doing enough to consider my family and I say it's too

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 1:05:11]

late but it's my responsibility now it wasn't my responsibility that and it is as I believe it is my response is relying on the state and ferried integrated they have one thing in here
safety measures now after all those hundreds of people died is not Seventeen to report incidents
whether you admit the truth why did you say you are wrong
why don't you put things right and be good to people of your country and be put to the people of your power and said it was wrong and you made a mistake and then put things right like one has just as much as we're talking about documents you have at least half the documents hasn't been provided we still await the documents are fourth
I think it's possible I'm sorry
why is it is too late
I don't have a family in which you have a family

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:06:17]

Elizabeth United so I'm either a sorry I Feel Love thy that Mauro God forbid in the same way that Martin today how would you feel I would hear like him I would feel like you I understand I don't say that I caught a future great I'm going to wear says Simon overnight I was made an offer for what will be my family doomed except that what did any of the people in Grenfell do to deserve that although what 300 thousand people 500 thousand immediate is it is not why it cost to put fire safety measures your spending billions and billions of pounds to live in a country that Big Ben's 65 million regenerating a new phase for Big Ben for what was an arrest
what happens if people are still in hotels that you haven't provided home score there's people around London where there's two dangerous cladding that you haven't taken off
during Grenfell you know the building even have five extinguishes it didn't have fallen over sprinkler systems I talked about this
you even want including my own granola bar before going to happen that you don't want to risk being like this is coming up and it will happen if we don't do enough about it and we have to ask what he's gone and done it all to you I say why one is nine months where
what shape if I said I would just like to say I said I understood that

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:07:50]

in some ways I can't because I haven't been through what you've been through that what I want I saved with five years ago and today
everything that we can to provide or the documents in the evidence and the judge will make a judgment and we will hear that and we will abide by that and we'll be as do everything we can
but ended the day your party strength you'll find is well you still live with your crab you dispense with funding from what got me walk on people like me and all the others that lost their loved ones about organised around us friends family loved ones children mothers fathers brothers sisters aunties uncles what about them what did they learn to deserve better what did they do to deserve
it's nothing like my baby in any company

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:08:49]

that you made a mistake we can do this why do you make that in cough that can make a big mistake if brought us justice
what we can do and try and put on and take people out in hotels and put them in proper homes presented in three maidens in Trump while he's been much stuff that's what about truth and reconciliation but what good was coming out
we do care about trees and that's what you most comfortable when I feel so sorry of course we were all human in this room cos we think but actually by trying to put fire safety things in place now something that we can't do and HRA is a good thing I think everyone either drain no area when you have got all the time and he did well to e-mail you wanted to put his level and I was right more markedly was on the phone to you guys about repairs and this and that we need more teachers
and Newport Mind How did he fall right my elderly father who had two strokes in the same year could have filled in by this article you put an elderly man over the age of 80 on the 14th floor I stop any more because what is happening he said on the 14th floor but then you put them on the 17th floor on the basis of what we've got to keep what did you do that that was what the inquiry will ask us and that's exactly what happened
nice we do can count
a notice saying
I know what you thought
the flow of EU law
I will tell you the last thing I believe he is the guy
and what a leg
i've got young children as love right now
my friends are really
now that can come out
they can't come out because you tackle this problem
that's what you need to know where the problem lies as the accountable for those people who lost their life
we'd like to see justice for Grenfell and lately
in the right place
in fact
I think we understand that you do want justice
everyone knows the public inquiry so we can't keep away justice tonight
I thought you have moved on I'm not know us and find out how I
it's in your actions
one in five minutes to digest the leadership it seems like this people like this there's an immediate as private patients
i'm all of your equality implications
you have found none in fact the one that you have found you found to be positive
as members through an equality impact assessment as giant in that kind of rubbish out at this point in his chancellor tells me that you are no month further forward and I were on June 30

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:13:01]

I think actions as evening the first thing on the agenda was legal fees so that we could produce the documents for the inquiry so that we are being open and transparent as possible but it's not all about money it's actually by our actions were trying to give the documents to the courts said they can give you justice but we're not judges and we can't do that or we can't do that tonight I know that many of you here will talk about an orderly transfer can we move on to the next item
a pay so one night here and we talk about the whole year
OK OK and when I say I know that some of you are interested about the carnival's Mary could you introduce this item please this item

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:14:08]

actually is what do the carnival itself it's to do with all those Village Trust and this is an annual grant that we give them and we are suggesting that we give them the grant of the same as they've heard in recent years the unusual feature about this year is that for the last

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:14:30]

plus 10 years of their lease
of the 20 year lease their rent was waved on suggesting that we do the same again this year and we review it in future the Council's policy now is to charge people the full rent but increased their grants the concept that being to make sure that occupation of arm
our property is fully valued within people's grants and suggesting that this year's not the year to make that change but we stopped the we start thinking about it from now on for next year as to what we do but it is a valuable organisation just going there anyone who's visited it recently will see the range of activities that they put on in normal times but also the way that they have stepped up for an extra things on in the wake of
of Grenfell so I think they're an organisation well worth supporting and so my recommendation is as in the paper to give them a grant and wait for them to get their draw away their rent this year but reconsider that waving and how to administer the drama moving chronicle by men
unmistakable though I am very aware because I've grown up in the area
it was moved to move carnival saw my wealth is not still going through a peak backing off from the night like he did when a lively and hasty fee and everything else because you are under scrutiny over this

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:16:02]

matter although his paper isn't about the Carnival and happy to stop version of William Lasky yet oil-rich today it will go on I although I must say that I don't think there's ever been the Council's plan I think it was Ken Livingstone's plan at one stage all suggested I think but it certainly never has certainly not our policy to this absolutely no closer we celebrate
and celebrate on welfare wheels out later

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:16:26]

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:16:35]

right next item is a contract award for violence reduction outreach service said Mary would you like to see this I know everyone in the community is worried well people I've been talking to are very worried about knife crime and this is something that we are doing to try and combat the problem that all our children are facing in the borough with this culture of knife-crime Mary would you like to say what we

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:17:03]

can do about it and what this says this is it this is a contract which will OG

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:17:10]

this will contract awarding with MOPAC money
I was very happy to take questions but I think it would just be be

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:17:22]

polite just let me finish and then if you'd like to ask a question you are very welcome but please just let her finish her senses some here please just let her
go normally calm softly softly venue officially on your generation are the last thing that happens to you after consultation with residents classified we find
can I can I can I ask Mary to respond to that about this misses high

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:17:51]

came about so this isn't Council money this isn't a decision that we made about Council resources this is money that we've been allocated by MOPAC and asked to explain you make for them but can I just say
the Mayor's Office for policing and crime and so this money allocated from them to spend are on a in this sort of category so all we did was put out to tender an open tender ginormous able to respond to and I think some local organisations did respond to it and also more local organisations that were two tenders to people at lots I think six companies
expressed interest but only two submitted a tender and we assess the tender and awards the unearthing this organisers have got a very good track record and so I'd recommend his only Mayor of London gave us the

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:18:47]

money and said who would we like who would be the right person to deliver a street-based targeted outreach intervention so how I honestly do you agree on something that evolved enough he could paint scrapes eighth that I never have
I like that something that we need is doing here and I hope you will

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:19:14]

engage with the people who have won the tender that would be really useful and I would be very helpful

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:19:21]

that said Charles Giles Trust

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:19:25]

sure they'd welcome your positive engagement with them
Charles okay

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:19:37]

I think one local organisation did but they're tender wasn't as that wasn't as robust and good
we have right now is about trivia night OK
I don't want to be done there

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:20:02]

these are some of the money that we have been given 85 thousand pounds and this is to agree either both St Giles Trust will use this money to deliver outreach services but we welcome we will say to them though people in the community would very much like to worry about how they are assessed
so are we happy to agree that
Young people come back to them yeah OK thanks

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:20:35]

the thousand offer to help engage and to do my job better and that's

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:20:45]

fine but it's a challenge to all we agreed on a meditation retreat thank you okay so the next

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:20:54]

or is he a nice outreach and this is a technical term about it afterwards because we were just talking about grants to voluntary
grants to voluntary organisations the care and support services are met her I think this is a topic again would you like to introduce it
I have a question about yes but we have not been powerless
why why why why
the two entities into the contract
to begin with
we have the right people
why do they not young carers in the borough but thank you actual support of a lot of desirable herrings they stop supporting the Children's of Joe Reilly did they not have activities extracurricular positive activities for young people even a bar even five years ago has put her activity for teenagers in the borough we don't cover all this is a debate that so we've got to stick
deterrent I think we're working in reverse

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:22:27]

I urge you to take a vote and we talked about the care services now though about funding for Hester here and for community overnight support and hotel base overnight sport or we just look at this if I think this is very important for people in the future for those who are suffering as a result of Grenfell can I ask you to over 100

[ Emily Pykett - 1:22:51]

almsgiving Falvey stitched confronts versions of the manager then helped mobbing programme right thank you
laughter
maybe once here

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:23:03]

it just to say that these this is an extremely important support service which was put into place very quickly what with prison face in September
am I just proved to be
very useful and supportive and expanded from being a place based there being in the night Boston also going into hotels and this paper's really to regularise the situation and to look forward to funding it
for them until June 18 when the situation will be reviewed again this is a set of interim Hagar ensuring payment and it will be reviewed again or be reviewed again thank him most distinct from from

[ Emily Pykett - 1:23:47]

Barcelona's this solely sporting her towels

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:23:51]

thank you so are we all agree that this is a really excellent service any questions can we please agree the recommendations in paragraph 2 thank you
nothing nothing that could be given a whopping contracts that will actually have to your record as well

[ Emily Pykett - 1:24:14]

I don't want it all and having got it wrong I tell the hotels in hotels

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:24:30]

OK thanks very much to make Satan is the final report of the short-term holiday letting is working with Malcolm you are going to count thank you yes would you please come
thank you
i've been incidents which I like to introduce the report
you have to push your buttons so that you can hear you
founders caution support residents have been involved in this way it we've been snowed under with complaints
if you get one of these in your block
it's absolute hell for the residents so we had to respond to it we had an all party working group that two Labour Councillors to Conservatives and it was jointly between
housing and property and public realm I'm terribly wrong
comes to exporting its paper 18 rightly speech we spaceship we spent a year working on this and we'll consult studded with thousands of residents are we had a major conference here which 90 key people attended we had four or five themed meetings it's joints what report from public realm and housing property and it's a unanimous report they cross party cosmetic and we would like you as the author leadership to adopt that the nine recommendations in this report what we did not consider was any body legally renting out a room in their property on a bed-and-breakfast basis with the omnipresent to manage it properly for not less than 19 over for not more than 90 days a year that's quite legal so we did not look at that a tall what were knocking at his people doing it against the planning rules where they're turning their residential home into a business now that beams for the borough are residents are losing residential accommodation
in my ward
in my view his love in my way up and we have a thousand beds in my ward alone we have a thousand beds which are put over the short-term holiday lets that's a thousand beds that residents could be using yes all proper long-term residents and so German leader on nine recommendations are listed at the front of the reports and Number 1 we lobby the government for primary legislation that were working on a private Member's Bill
with Karen Buck who is the Labour MP for North Westminster is eating this in the House of Commons with the support of Nickie Aiken who is the leader of Westminster council and are all party support from here we up what the Mayor to adopt some sort of registration and licensing system many many many capital cities throughout the world now have this licensing system so that's will need primary legislation not only does it lead to loss of residential housing we get this illegal waste dumping from all these recipes visitors you don't obey the rules like our residents do I put out no hot wet what the rubbish
we get antisocial behaviour forgive me this includes pop up parties pop-up brothels and pop up drug dens we had a major case in North Kensington last year of 15 youths who descended from Lucerne and caused in the fray absolute mayhem which took a lot of police resources and in my ward in the last month we've had a pop-up party that led to the murder of a young 19 year old man he was knifed in the back and it was two groups who had come from out of borough from Camden to a party the two groups had some
crashed and it led to the loss of this life of this young man all of this is due to these short term lets where people don't know who's taking the property
it also means people in the block of lost their security to their block they don't know who's living in the flat at invalidates their insurance because lots of our blocks of privately insured by the people who run them and who own them and it's the safety of their children and their elderly relatives it's terrifying for some of our residents so we beg you to adopt all nine of the recommendations we lobby for primary legislation and support Nickie Aiken and Karen Buck Number 2 perhaps we could do a pilot scheme in this borough Hammersmith and Fulham are doing that already thirdly we produce a website for our tenants and are leaseholders are that would give them some sort of guidance about insurance and what they can do about these problems a bit of free legal advice next
we have an anti social behaviour guide for private property lettings of Nottingham
County Council have an excellent guide to this which we recommend to you Number 6 on the powers of officers to deal with this like community triggers and community protection notices and what were called as HBOS and so on that we introduced these were people who are bad leaseholder Sepp Blatter's we devote some officer time to advising our garden square sub-committees because these residents are abusing the garden squares and then two more
and then I'll shut up that all new council leasehold leases is people who exercise their right to buy and have their only sold their lease should have written into it a clause enforceable governance that they should not do holiday lettings and finally
we lobby the companies who are doing this to improve their acts
notably Airbnb are very good at this and they are now cooperating but there are other platforms are not cooperating and we've not encouraged the formation of something called the St A which is the short term accommodation association and they have industry standards or murdering encourage anybody who's Lessing in our borough to join this association
so I would plead beg you to adopt all nine of these recommendations
thank you very much

[Cllr Will Pascall - 1:31:38]

not promote personally and collectively I think we would all welcome as thorough and very useful piece of work and ran over piled recommend to my colleagues to accept the recommendations
especially those that require joined up thinking within the different directorates of the of the council and I recommend that this is passed to the Executive Director for Environment and relevant services to come back with a plan for action after the election are not able to name the officer as such at the moment because that officer will be appointed in approximate two weeks' time and I certainly would recommend that we ask for this report to be past officers for an action plan to be brought back to this group
and calm

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 1:32:27]

[Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 1:32:29]

the Titanic story just a quick question Have you got a view on making amendments on leaseholds for excluding shorthand holidays and my concern is whether or not this has an impact on valuation on people's properties if you put this restriction in
effectively those restrictions are very mostly since already amid there are two problems
it had to be tested in the courts and it went said I think it's the cheer one tribunal and eventually went to the high court and the high court clearly ruled that doing short-term holiday lets for more than 90 days it somewhere where you're not living is not a residential use so the law has is like play at that point and mostly sees save that your property shall be for residential use
so that's the first point so that gives the encouragement to landlords or to freeholders to enforce because this clear judgment is not a residential use where the ultimate penalty being the seizure of the lease back for no compensation secondly I'm a lot of leases in London are defective
what are called defective leases so one leaseholder can't enforce a covenant against the other leaseholder
because it has to go via the freeholder and back to the second leaseholder so all the lights are rubbing their hands because you've now got three firms of solicitors involved
it has mostly offices in London are defect
so somehow you've got to have mutually enforceable covenants so that any one leaseholder can enforce against any other leaseholder without going via the freeholder and site that my answer to that is the leases the leeks and whoever's buying the property better read the lease and do their homework and find out I think not
Catholics
C and U decide his Festival from three months so you know the losses through three 90 days or less was guesting six months with my dogs
not long after an unfair to point five seven successive defeats
it is a tough people
maybe it needs to be amended to three months
I haven't been a confrontation with this this recommendation came from the bar's own housing officers we know what we feel about them it might miss linear
it's worth checking if you work in recent years dreamers not six
but the point isn't all recommendations are recommendation says Okja would you say that for six Micheline realised pastry of Berkeley's really here yes no I will spend more expensive mostly have loads of Robinson claims perpetual by sub so that the Council to determine is the freehold of what the current terms and conditions of its own leases are off so they could make it six if they want it are like a shake-up and common sense
it hasn't Goliath myth is light and I pick up on the point has been

[Cllr Will Pascall - 1:36:03]

made as to the floor and with yourself is this this is a very good question has been asked this is a technical question and I would ask that we include that in the request for the director who's picking up on practical action forward and clarify this to pick up on the point that some are you made about the difference between the light is 90 days and six months
and the Department but sorry that the between the two teams I've apologised yet
the purpose of that is you many personal history repeating again together
but that I would like the officer concerned to pick this up as a specific point has been made by both of you are from this this flaw in I think what this is saying is it's not short-term holiday lets
the short-term holiday lets any leaseholder can do 90 days of being permitted to primary legislation this is saying
if they're not doing short-term holiday lets in their own premises under their own control for less than 90 days therefore they can earn a bit of money from their spare room great it saying
more permanent lettings of over 90 days for up to six months is that grey area because once you go over six months it becomes a long term messing high name I thank foreign five months last lets to 1 percent and are not desirable is that not a guest is slightly familiar and I

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:37:36]

think we should accept all the recommendations of the great I think it's a really good example of a thoroughly a group that's involved lot whether it involved lots of people across all sorts of boundaries and responded supplementary carrot the questions to ask how she is a bad idea is actually comes back on we have had lots of areas which is that sounded partners really takes off very neatly numbed them partners
why we find it very difficult to get any primary legislation to tackling an act that placements and soup caused or was it possible to know what chances do think we've culture of his private Member's Bill and is the London local authorities that another verse another another revenue that we could pursue all morning
on the parliamentary level the people who were leading on Nickie Aiken and Karen Buck and I don't know where Karin sculpture is Italy's first reading
hopefully it will get Donegall Road recommended that Hilton of the London local authorities Act is another possible convert to getting primary legislation

[Cllr Charles Willams - 1:38:45]

it just to say on that that I totally agree with Mary if a NES cashback is very high on the pecking order in the private Member's Bill it won't get through he says
she's got and I think she's got support from the GLA she's got support from Westminster what are the MPs for London behind her and the majority of those MPs I would think needs to be whipped by Labour
because the majority of them are Labour members hence Karim

[Cllr Mary Weale - 1:39:15]

now it is our government's Niska high number yes family together and that I think it's worth looking at the other
the Minister something I think so

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:39:27]

in the same alley oop graphic you're free except one recommendation yet so we want something for my Christmas on the recommendation of the recent good local derby as Haskell's suggested this would not be taken without the discipline lead the recommendation as I understand it that

[Cllr Will Pascall - 1:39:50]

were making as the whole of this report should be passed to director to review the detail and come forward with an action plan say before anything is done in practical terms that will come back to this group Vote for a decision I think the purpose of today is to welcome the hard work has been done on a cross party basis involving thousands of people from that community plus take on board the recommendations and I would ask the all the suggestions that he made with regard to the valuation point that Kim made the night day in six months and the alternative route of legislation to be used included a specific items in the analysis by director and take what is a an outline and generic notice respect that landed generic set of recommendations and put it through the mill of practicality that the data work by officers will have to go to before they can come forward with specific recommendations looking at the legal basis etc. and where Caramac another's evocative and then put it forward as an action plan that will be brought back to two to this group and an that's am we will then review those and the decisions will be made at that stage but I think the way of the purpose of today is to accept the recommendations and to thank the group and all those involved for the very hard work that's been done well
just to respond to that is exactly what we were asking because we think the members of this working group for the hard work they put in and misheard especially we are asking you to accept the report and then to a lot of it came from the officers actually as well not they could womenomics is Lake on or have the
practicalities of work within the law so this three big things for you there's the lobby when actually we after what we want the primary legislation say and who can we get on side and the officers know viola secondly if we do a pilot scheme what is the implication for that first certain areas of the borough
and thirdly as a bit of work involved in doing some guidelines on the website and forum for stakeholders and leaseholders giving them a bit of advice or giving them a bit of comfort because although it's not strictly our responsibility I feel we have a moral responsibility to look after the safety and wellbeing of our residents who are affected by this and a lot of them are affected by it and I think the other thing you couldn't have it as a very useful as you reference the experience of others elsewhere because the totality wisdom doesn't his

[Cllr Will Pascall - 1:42:25]

Norway's here and there are people you mentioned Nottingham who had good experience in this than maybe some of what they are doing is working really well and it's only their learning lessons from and we would need to learn your was how Francisco yet Barcelona Paris Berlin Wall Street side of us

[Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:42:40]

thank you very much
raised his hat thank everyone please can you this evening
thank you
  • Cllr Elizabeth Campbell

  • Cllr David Lindsay

  • Cllr Will Pascall

  • Emily Pykett

  • Mr Barry Quirk

  • Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith

  • Cllr Mary Weale

  • Cllr Emma Will

  • Cllr Charles Willams