RBKC Leadership team meeting 15th January 2020 - Wednesday, 15 Jan 2020 - 6.30 pm - The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

RBKC Leadership team meeting 15th January 2020
Wednesday, 15 Jan 2020 - 6.30 pm 









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  1. Cllr Anne Cyron
  2. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  3. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  4. Cllr Anne Cyron
  5. Cllr Cem Kemahli
  6. Cllr Anne Cyron
  7. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  8. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  2. Cllr Mary Weale
  3. Cllr Cem Kemahli
  4. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  5. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  6. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  7. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  8. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  9. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  10. Cllr David Lindsay
  11. Cllr Sarah Addenbroke
  12. Cllr Cem Kemahli
  13. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  14. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  15. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  16. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  17. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Mary Weale
  2. Cllr David Lindsay
  3. Cllr Mary Weale
  4. Cllr Mary Weale
  5. Cllr Cem Kemahli
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  7. Cllr Mary Weale
  8. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  9. Cllr Sarah Addenbroke
  10. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  11. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  12. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
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  1. Cllr Mary Weale
  2. Cllr Sarah Addenbroke
  3. Cllr David Lindsay
  4. Cllr David Lindsay
  5. Cllr Cem Kemahli
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  7. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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please could we stand for 72 seconds silence and please could I ask you to turn off all your mobile phones or computers or whatever
thank you very much
thank you


I don't believe I have any apologies for absence are there any declarations of interest


now are and can I sign the minutes of the last meeting as a true and accurate record
great thank you
Sir reticence quickly
thank you


let's start with paper 8 for the allocation of Grenfell projects funds and its update and I apologise of way where it was written because it was written before the day happened and it happened on Saturday so we're asking I'm and please to give us an update on how the day went on Saturday
I again thank you I'm so yes we had a grandfather decisions A on Saturday
Cllr Anne Cyron - 0:02:42
and really that this has come to leadership team previously and we did discuss it the reason for having this additional paper is really and to get the money out as quickly and as efficiently as possible given in the meeting that we had on Saturday Sir think it was a good day the feedback that we've had has been really positive
it was the first time that we've tried to
do something like this and actually quite an innovative way of running a meeting it's not something that normally being done mean we were told that it is one of the bigger events of its kind in the country
so we really were trying to do something quite novel here and I think it's completely right that
given this money as part of the Grenfell recovery strategy that the people that
obviously own their own recovery should have control of where the money goes so we had
I think around 250 people residents north Kensington residents who came and there were other spectators so the room was very full
we listened to fantastic pitches I mean really I think showed the talent and
a you know what we have in that community
I think everybody was really impressed with the presentations and I think that was just a really great feeling I'm we have got some people who were awarded money or as part of the voting system and the day was run by an expert in participatory grant-making so we very much took her advice and her experience we had to make some changes as the day when on which I think was completely right which is what the audience asked us for i'm and yeah I mean we'll be we have a list of all of the
winning bids we only got through outcome 1 and 2 so we have to still complete outcomes three to six but we're making an announcement on when and how that's going to happen given the feedback that we received since very shortly so I think that's probably
all I have to say about the day for the moment but please any questions I would be happy to answer
but can I just say that what we are being asked on this paper's just
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:04:59
to note that the Lead Member an will make the final decision on the ontowards following following the decision days so we are saying that we won't make that decision she wilted and Chestnut that now having made that clear are there any other questions
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:05:25
yes thank you for some years I attended I think it was absolutely brilliant I went there with a certain degree of a nervous I suppose because it is was quite new and it was very innovative and I was reminded from the first statement sooner that came out as a lot of negativity about 0 it's game showing an all this bit species I thought it worked very well I think I'm the way things is a wobbled a bit and then sorted itself I thought was x excellent but I thought that the whole transparency people pitching their ideas and then being filled by the community I thought was very good my question is how do you see the future running forward on this is something that's going to be an annual event or it's probably an unfair question too early to ask for it
thanks for your bins
Cllr Anne Cyron - 0:06:12
so thank you I think that's a great question is actually something that we've been asked by some of the participants and also by some of the
organisations and groups that didn't that one almost quite ready to present one today because they have some governance issues of finance issues which was supporting them with and our capacity building programme will also help them with that I mean I think we have to discuss whether we do this again next year I hope we do I think it's a good thing for this Council to do put power in the hands of the people to make their own decisions I think an important part of it will be the monitoring
that we would do once the money is released so we want a obviously the money like all money that the Council spends we have to make sure it's spent well and that there's impact
so I think that will be part of it as well but I would very much hope that this is something that we continue to learn form and continue to do her
I give sort of touched on it in your response to Ken but I was going
Cllr Cem Kemahli - 0:07:18
to ask I know those 129 expressions of interest initially and then of which 35 were rejected failing to meet the eligibility criteria and we are just curious to see that's quite a high percentage that didn't make it through what was a common theme of issues meant they weren't eligible
Cllr Anne Cyron - 0:07:36
so I mean actually going to ask him as Hughes to arts discussion but the one thing that I would reiterate what I said on the day is that
we have made a commitment to support
everybody who made a bird and those who didn't quite make a bid and I think you know we have to work with all of these groups and support them to build their capacity but
he's please add Love your view on this
so we have in place an eligibility criteria that we tested every application against where applications weren't successful was largely around the organisation's lengths were they established for the right length of time to meet the amount of funding they worth seeking whether those organisations had the right registrations on companies House were their accounts up to date so we tested the financial stability of the organisations and the next stage will be for those successful bids to look at the safeguarding making sure that people who are working with our vulnerable community or in the right place to do so
I was also there such
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 0:08:58
other as fantastic day so well done for organising at you and your team I really liked the where everyone was so respectful in the audience and really listened and gave every project fair chance I thought it was fantastic
I just wondered following
one from were an was saying and if
you could give us
a bit more information about how you actually will be monitoring these projects and because I think that is quite
important as that obviously this is taxpayers'
money we need to see that we will know that they are going to deliver thank you
so the Community engagement Team will appoint a dedicated officer or full time whose role will be to go out and visit those projects as well as the kind of paper-based monitoring that you would normally undertake on a monthly basis but will be interacting with those projects seeing them in delivery and also communicate in that to the north Kensington community on a regular basis so that people can actively see how those projects are taking place on the ground and indeed it is the community that supported those projects that become part of the monitoring process because they themselves will be looking to take part in those projects and they themselves will be looking to see that those projects are happening on the ground and if not I'm sure they'll be looking to report back to us
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:10:26
I just like to reiterate our thanks to tear down and Damien and all of their community engagement team are now it was a huge amount of work and I'm
but I really think we've got some traction with it and it's showing that we mean what we say when we say we will engage with people and when we mean what we say when we are talking about co-designing and exactly what you said that the people who have managed to get the Grants everyone in the community will be backing them because they've chosen them and exactly what you say about the monitoring everyone will be monitoring as it is off the community so I think it's a terrific start so thank you very much I'm both you and actually to to all of your team and an
OK can I almost forgot we have to agree the recommendations in paragraph 2 can we agree the recommendations in paragraph 2
thank you
paper A 5


which is about the council community safety wardens scheme Gerard overdue
thank you very much
the paper lays out is that is the plan for the scheme that will be
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:11:45
looking to move forward to and this has been brought about really by some fundamental changes from MOPAC on the
the scheme that they currently have for local authorities to buy into additional police officers and those changes really around three particular areas the new scheme that they have now
means that the cost of the additional officers were buys just not cost-effective anymore the number we can get for the amount we pay is just not cost-effective secondly there is a whole change to the tasking process so at the moment we have quite strong control over tasking for the constantly services that we buy that will change going forward and the third it really is about abstractions that police being taken away from Kensington Chelsea to do duties in other parts of London and at the moment we have a real commitment that that doesn't happen and where it happens we get a rebate as we paid for some of them were not getting were getting we're not going to get that going forward so all of that has caused us to re-evaluate the best possible scheme that we can do in order to help support the police in protecting our residents so what you've got here is a is a plan for that scheme
and really I think this scheme will just give us much more flexibility means we can work much closer with other enforcement areas in the borough and the Council and actually have a much more flexible scheme a scheme that can start small and build we hope the disease Committee wardens become successful become seen businesses might want to buy wardens
bids on the high streets might want to buy wardens residents' association so we see this very much as the beginning of something that hopefully when it successful will grow and expand so I'm really quite excited about this because it gives us a lot of influence more control over these people as for the specific detail on to hand over to Stuart for that please
now I say is now good thank you aren't just to add just a couple of are just a couple of points to challenges just described
he's like the existing police contract is no longer providing us value for money and in fact the challenge is for the police in fulfilling that police contract so up until June of last year we had a contract for 34 officers they could only give us 20 officers would now with a contract for 17 officers and they can actually only give a 16 officers because of the resourcing challenges that they've got a cross across the mat
so there are some real challenges for the police and for factory fulfilling that contract so as Gerrard says our proposals are to vary the current contract from 17 officers to three but to still keep three officers to give us our task able police asset
the we can task week-to-week month-to-month are against those issues that are of most concern to our present and to establish a Community Safety Warden scheme
which will focus around two key areas really one is around enforcement so enforcement activities issuing fixed penalty notices community protection notices enforcing our public spaces Protection orders are tackling environmental issues some highways concerns
St population issues such as Beggars or rough sleepers structuring because those sorts of things
graffiti removal and those sorts of issues that are
that we receive lots of reports of into the Community Safety in into environment and communities are week by week throughout the year and also part of their role would be engaging with residents actually being visible accessible and engaging supporting with residents to tackle those types of anti-social behaviour or
environmental issues that that
our day-to-day activity in living in a really densely in in inner London bar
so we hope through the service where hoped to provide a more swifter are flexible service than we've got currently thought he's contract
will be an emphasis on problem-solving so that we would want these officers to be engaging with the
are residents and local organisations in developing our problem-solving plans to tackle those will sort of are knotty issues as well as responding to the day-to-day concerns and providing a visible
reassuring are uniformed police presence across the borough and I think that's all I wanted just to say bye bye introduction will take any questions
and as that as a representative of Ward as I do with to PS players in
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:16:35
it and how different will be the what effect will it have on the enforcement of the peace at Pearce peers
it will provide us more officers that we dedicated to tackling those Pearce boroughs
and we wore the three police officers we would partner them with our Wardens so that they can force the PSP owes are what we find at the moment is our dedicated Ward officers and has got too much too many priorities to prioritise are PSP OS which are around noisy cars aren't busking so the ability of the PSB owes to enforce the those is sorry the ability of the dedicated Ward officers to enforce our peers peers is really limited but with with these three offices which will be dedicated and that will
provide a sort of a dedicated resource of Council officers and police officers which will be able to deploy to tackle those PSP owes
just further on in the paper I there's mention of the ways of the
Cllr Cem Kemahli - 0:17:42
residents can actually engage with the wardens because also for a number of these issues it it would be useful overkill to be contacting the police really really and especially with all the other things that there they're doing
this mention of Sullivan the app internet other technology is this something so that residents will only be able to pick up the phone and have someone come along or is it is or how will a resident engage with this so we
are in effect in the first instance I think we will be are we will be what we want them to engage through the existing existing networks of communication but we want to be able to use new technologies to make them accessible are we want these wardens our Incommunities going to lessons associations meeting with residents and residents groups are making the that themselves known providing a direct link into them so we would want them to be able to be contacted directly by residents they will have on a radio are now also have a body-worn cameras as well
which will then link fail to link them through to the CCTV control room
so we'll be looking at different ways in which they can engage with residents and being able to respond to residents and that does that will include I think that in time that will include the ability to respond to live issues as they emerge but we will be testing over the first year a number of community communication and engagement mechanisms with residents and with our partners as well over the first year
3 can I just have a follow up there so does that mean that you can find them up and they'll
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:19:22
come or not you won't be able to phone them up in the first instance
not directly to them but you'll be able to fund through to the management and then we would why
that's not be individually so you can
then you can phone up the office and say you know there's graffiti all over there so there is a persistent beggar at the end of my street ultra
absolutely and then
these are the guys over the latter
had deployed to those issues does the flexibility and the swiftness that we really want to build into the service that we haven't got through our existing contract for additional police officers so that Woods would be much more able to come in in the morning check that the messages have been important overnight and then deploy officers on the ground that data issues and as I arrived during the day
i'm Katherine
sorry Kim 70 people want to ask questions or
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:20:17
Kew just could be refined
outline of their working
hours I mean obviously because we have ASB in
one o'clock in the morning
I mean yes how will they
go it was your answers that I just one of the problems and get them on the current problems we have with the community please is they finish
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:20:33
quite early in the evening relatively early and it was a lot of our problems start when nightclubs and bars and clubs in the Murmel through the current community police team we don't have them around at that time so part of what we're doing Anna Stewart to look at some models of times that we can extend a warm 2 in the morning or whatever so actually were able to cover some of those areas like the Kings Road your Ward my Ward where we get into the troubles of the Troubles are just as motion 2 and 3 in the morning as two and three in the afternoon so this this Warden scheme will give us that flexibility
I mean what we have yet to bottom out the exact shift pattern around this that Javid is right with undertaken analysis and continuing to do so to really look at what are the at peak hours for smaller peak days for us
and we want these offices where they're needed most that at the time that their immediate needed most so that will be Les afternoon and into the evening and into the night and particularly Friday Saturday nights
we've we've we've we've yet to toe to toe to bottom out detail on that but that the intention certainly
I am just
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 0:21:48
looking at the diagram that you've got on page 5 which actually I know is to do with your face too so I'm slightly jumping on but when you've got this sort of Central Office that ring in I think this will work but it will work only really if you're working with all these other teams
so who will be at the centre of going out will it be this office that the waters are phoney into a Who's Who is actually linking all that
show the so the Warden team
so so if if if a request comes in for an issue for the Warden Team and the Warden team aren't the best place to respond to it if it's a planning issue for actually requires a police response then they will find that off too to the relevant agency so that
central office
if it's a if it requires a multi-agency response so as knotty issues or can't be responded to by single agency response well expect the Warden team to pull together a problem-solving meeting quite shortly after the referral in arm to pull the respective partners together to work out what is the issue that we've got here who can afford to bring some of factor and some change to it what are we going to do about it and then put that problem-solving plan in place so I expect the Warden team to be very much involved in the activities where where they can add value to these other partners on where there is an issue that requires a multi-agency response the bulk of noise and nuisance issues can just go to noise and nuisance and they can just respond to it
can you give us a bit of example because
I am a bit lost
so give me an example of where we would then use the warden team rather than these
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:23:29
young sorry if we have if we have a location that has are during the day are a number of street drinkers are an moving into the evening youths hanging round has got graffiti are and then later on into the evening drug-dealing
you could see a range of different professionals that might need to be involved in that so we've got Astley population outreach team that work with a street homeless people who've got drug and alcohol issues we've got our drug and alcohol services we've got
a detached out which team that might be working with young people and we've got the police actually have got responsibility to respond to criminality and drug-dealing I would see the Warden Service with the community safety team working with all of those professionals to develop a problem-solving plan around that around that time that person specific location putting 9 place and monitoring it live with that
Lisburn said is that an incident on the King's Road now
how are we going to respond to it
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:24:35
without all those other teams involved the incident on the King's Road now how our warns how I was going to find out about it and how are they going to respond so if we get all the other agencies at the okay so if if
if a resident calls in what we would put a TPO on our website will have a telephone number for the Warden Service and will now on shift so well to let people know one shift so some phones in I will be picked up by the supervisor who will then be able to task whatever whatever officers are there to respond to that to that issue or if it's a criminal issue to actually contact the police because the police might be able to get there quicker have the powers to allow lest people so that we the judgement of the supervisors
the three place on the main in the main sorry will be deployed with the arm with the wardens but there may be times when their deployed separately to to
address issues Sapley they might not need Morden's with them or think as one saying
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:25:46
My question is specific do with the detached outreach team and we talked about last week with Gera whereas the real value added going to be for them at the team but actually for the rest of them with them being
grouped like this
so the detached out which team is for as focuses event an event use crime and anti-social behaviour and serious youth violence are would see them working alongside the warden scheme that alongside the Wardens where they wanted to do joint patrols where there may be other are ASB issues I would see them working very closely of skills share I would want the wardens are to understand the signs of serious youth violence of modern slavery of child sexual exploitation to better understand the signs of vulnerability to be able to refer enter into services as required work jointly with those services to deliver their aims and objectives
some extent
i'm other any plans to link this up with the parking wardens because obviously they're out on the streets during the day and in some areas
Cllr Sarah Addenbroke - 0:27:03
quite late into the evening and you know they might pick up on something and is there some way that they can alert the wardens to get to let's say the Kings Road when something's happening
rather than going through the opposite here so
I think that's a really really important point one of the things that we will be establishing is a problem solving and tasking process around this Officer so how do we understand what the problems are and then how do we task these officers both singularly and also with partners as well are part of that is making sure that we've got the white intelligence and that's not just the intelligence from the place that's intelligence from a range of different agencies and we were working towards a model which would see a
a range of partners
are from across the Council and wider are focusing on problem-solving and then feeding into a tasking meeting which would then tasked the officers and then would evaluate that although on a 4 weekly cycle but aligned to that we need to be reaching out to a broader range of partners which are the eyes and ears on the street so that they know if there's something that looks suspicious of them all they've got a concern about they can refer into the Wardens team and will sort of triage that if you like make an assessment and then respond might be the which Riazat make the assessment and respond immediately it might be that we need to do some more research to understand what the issue is and what's going on and specific location but that would be part of the problem-solving I would see the warden scheme are looking
working with with power with the Community Safety Team as well
I think we have we have to take us back to where we started from the
Cllr Cem Kemahli - 0:28:56
crest initiative was from the residence in order to have a more joined up approach to enforcement and I think we've joining it up we're going to see quite a lot of open overlap in you mention the traffic wardens and things like that so
what I think you've done designed with this sort of the graph if anything it should be more of a Venn diagram rather than an independent thing because each one will be contacting the other there will be a central offices of handling it and and really also we've got to remember that policing to met policing is not really a borough provision that something that's provided from government and obviously with the sort of the recent announcement of more police nationally
that must be having some effect on beyond the three that were paying ourselves there must be some effect on additional numbers of policing in the area is yes
yes it is so the so the as you know the prime Minister committed to an extra 20 thousand police officers after Matt have been lobbying for between South between 6 and 7 thousand officers and it was confirmed to me yesterday that are over the next 12 months will be an extra 300 41 police officers within the area West bcu which covers ourselves Westminster and Hammersmith and Fulham are there may be others as well I would anticipate there would be others but the first tranche if you like of those additional officers will be 341 police officers for the bit that the Area West bcu what are not clear about yet and are meeting gum Alan Harper bowel mundane or pick it up with her the BCU commander is where those 300 41 police officers will be deployed to and I think that what we would really want them to ploy to is visibly on our streets are and I think that's what our residents would want as well but some
I've yet seen to see the detail of that
we just a bigger we've lobbied hard and will continue to lobby is not
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:30:50
just getting the police officers what we use in full but secondly what you see from this is
the first phase is actually quite a an introductory phase and a lot of the questions you're asking will be once we've had the first phase we find to review what's happened how do we extend it how do we involve other enforcement agencies within the within the borough so you'll see on page 4 it is as a Phase 1 and Phase 2 so there is an element of this is new for us we're going with sort of step in any may be quite quite gently and we may be criticised for that we could have been more bolder and more robust but they were going to get this bedded out get it down then we can look at extending to face to the second is by making it part of Crest ratcheting hopefully going to improve that whole communication thing how residents communicate with the Council how the Council departments work together and how the whole thing comes together that's why being part of crest is important because it links in with all those other things
so at the end of the day what the thing be that you try to have one number that people can Phelps' Lutley
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:31:49
1 Apr even climate yeah
yeah at any other questions Committee otherwise I think
Linda husband
Can everybody hear me without one of these
in effect replaces what was the in the initial plan of a safer neighbourhood policing I e people walking around the streets trying to communicate but we've only got 14 for the whole
borough or
and they seem to have additional tasks to perform and
I think that what we have a concern is that we have the met with a stretched our Safer Neighbourhood Teams stretched and where actually asking quite a lot of these wardens that and yet we have a reduction in people who have actually got a power of arrest and what was 6 nificant or was in fact that the Council sponsored officers actually did have the power of arrest so if for example if I think it was in the newspapers yesterday there were five top wards in Kensington with quite high
crime rates including the discussions that we had the ES be meeting on Friday where we clearly needed additional policing to tackle specific problems and it was very clear that we had a shortage of police in order to be able to address it now I can't actually see wardens without a power of arrest they may be able to deal with litter they may be able to move people on but they're not going to be able to deal with drug dealers and people who are actually drug users which is effectively what was saying people residents who attended that meeting were incandescent at the idea that the council were actually effectively reducing their security by this measure hang on just saying is there flexibility in this scheme to be able to respond
by increasing the level of people with the power of arrest
get an air before I let down dance that I just say how very welcome
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:34:30
here are your scrutinising as acute as ever and I do hope the minority party should they not wish to take up their places and scrutiny will be kind enough to let you have a place because as you know it's within their gift are that's fatty I can say so welcome seconding I'd like to say beforehand of showered as it is of course people are anxious but remember I'm what Stewart said and actually Barry and I met the borough commander guests as well and the factors a lot of new police are coming on stream so what we're looking at is all the things which they won't be concentrating on which matter to all our residents like the letter begging graffiti it's it's it's the low level staff and of course there will be many many more police that we can then phone up and say actually she know what this isn't low level we need you here I'm as yet said debate 304 anyway
PFI La La lecture adults your question directly they
look first of all the the local Neighbourhood Policing are not being
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:35:46
affected but they will still be in your ward and not have still be working in your ward so that will still be there
hello it's not a compensatory
answer questions results of all we are not responsible policing in the borough
the Metropolitan police are comments like that or better and that the police rather rather than us so you will still have your neighbourhood policing and that was to they exist will still have the ability where we need to with the three
offices that we're going to get through the new scheme to be able to react to respond to certain issues but a lot of the feedback from residents yes drugs are an issue but a lot of the feedback for residents are stuff that the please don't touch now the begging the Anti social behaviour so that's not getting dealt with now it will get dealt with under the new Warden scheme so of course is a balancing out but I think what we've heard from a lot of resonance is why on the peace deal in Bishop shot with why on the police dealing with a begging White the police dealing with litter because the not
so we will be able to do through this
thank you and Mary Travers one last question for you as Chair of the AERA say
OK so I'd like to thank Mr. Priestley for coming to scrutiny and explaining that the asking to us and I think I said something choose and about I know you have consulted but this is something that you have to kind of go out really the scheme and sell to people because I was at the same meeting about antisocial behaviour as Linda and people were dismayed that the drop from 3 to 7 teen
people who didn't have sorry from 17 percent to 3 who didn't have the the wardens who do not have the power of arrest and I agree with Gerrard that yes as a lot of things that I think wardens can do better I do see that but I think you have to be able to explain to people and an almost you know proved to them because the perception is that you are taking away a police men at a time when crime is rising and drug dealing is rising and that is going to cost them a lot of anxiety so I think you really have to
if this scheme is going to work I think you have to sell it to people and explain as you explain to us exactly what the wardens will do and that they won't lose all the police and just have three policemen in the borough because I think that's might be what they think
thank you very much I think that's very helpful interventions from
two very experienced councillors
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:38:20
but on the basis of what we've bred are we happy to take the decision in paragraph 2
for listening to what you are saying and actually appreciating that we now need to go out and explain to people very clearly and engaged really well would have been to say we are not actually taking away policeman police will be increasing their police numbers what we're doing as all the additionality which they won't be picking up but we happy with that thank you agreed by could we please turn to pay the A6
Mary of the Medium Term financial panning it comes up it seems like only yesterday we were looking at this


rebated version it's an update rather than a complete rehearsal of the whole thing I'm which I know is disappointing for everybody but there we go it contains a number of recommendations and it also as I'm sure
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:39:18
of was read i'm gives details of the settlement so at least now were a little bit further forward knowing what the
sort of place what the financial red lines are we haven't got all the data in but we've got most of the important data so amongst the recommendations as Fraser a few things I want to draw your attention to moneys are spent the first one is that we are nearer to balancing the budget than we were last time I'm but I'm and that we know the outcome of a financial supplement I also wanted to bring your I'm attention to two points seven that we are intending to stick with the local council tax reduction scheme which is something I'd be very we may have to a a abandoned one day but at the moment
we are
this is just this part of its discretionary we are the most generous a at the most generous
end of the spectrum on that and it really does help people on low incomes and to point I think we're missing or missing a word on just a point in that direction I think it's back long term empty properties I think we should be talking about the into point 8 as opposed to long term properties which we've got a lot of and I'd like to charge 3 and set out the facts but we got
i'm then
that there are some new spending pressures which are detailed I think in table 2 and some new savings the most significant one is on the pension Fund as you will know the pension fund is produced is fontenot about 100 30 per cent we've had our latest actuarial review and that has led to aid ongoing reduction and also the ability for us not to hold a
Sir reserve that we've held there for a number of years those can both go and be long term ongoing savings there's a lot in there so please questions are maybe of miss something important Tyrone and Mike might think that we should add before
us before we go on to questions can I just ask whether we could record our thanks to a Quentin Marshall and the Pensions Committee because they've done a fantastic job An disliked put our thanks on record
are right David
Mary thank you I want to take you into your last point about the three
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:41:42
points four million or so savings on the fifth on the
bullet point 6 point 6 on page 7 about a pension
and whilst I would be absolutely happy to bank it as it were my caveat is if things get stickier
or more uncertain in the future
what are the implications of that we have to write back more than we otherwise would in rather choppy of times
I think this is still a very prudent approach given how incredibly
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:42:15
well funded we are
and so like anything else it would take a huge market reverse to I mean really bigger than the last financial crash practically to cause any serious concern might do return to that
I mean we've got a 250 millions pounds surplus
on the pension Fund now and this
these savings have to be approved and had been approved by the Actuary
has also made provision for some of that surplus to be used as a bulwark against any potential
stop Malky reverses or problems with any of our assets so I think where the this is easily doable within the position of the pinch of funds in
obviously it'll be looked at again in previous time
by more look again the value of the pension fund again and say what the position of is is then almost certainly will still be in surplus
but we'd look at the right again every three years as we always have done
just add add to that I think people would take it very amiss if we
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:43:26
didn't do something like that and we're still this pressure on our spending and this is an obvious place where we have been a we can afford to a to step back and
let's get a bit of relaxing on the General Fund happen
in nine
Cllr Cem Kemahli - 0:43:44
point 12 on the council tax as a key source of income oversee shall we all appreciate that tears as part of our manifesto we committed to be in the bottom quartile across London we see that it there's band dears 870
does that mean we're meeting on our pledge of where are we across London at the moment
yes I actually asked officers to see that a calculation in advance of tables so future Meeting February and it will still keep as well below the lower quartile of so that that was to be achieved
any other questions or I've got one question and bit wary because it might be a stupid question
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:44:24
but we've always talked about 40 million pounds savings
but it's not mentioned in this paper so mean that we're not having to save 41 millions pounds over the next three years or
yes winter yet so so we announced back in July when we published our Medium Term financial Strategy that there was for two million budget gap over three years actually as a result of all MAES was getting a balanced budget so we knew that that was phases 20 million in 20 20 then a further 10 million and a further 10 10 million that got us to the 40 what this is essentially demonstrating is that because we balance between 20 or were there or thereabouts at she we've identified and savings and also reduction in budget pressures that closes that budget gap of 20 million in year one now what we still have and what we have talked about in the report that comes in February is we do still have a 20 million gap for future years so that's for Surrey came about 40 million the or talk about 20 were halfway through so yeah so we reached a 20 but we've still got a further 22 05 two thousand twenty 21 onwards for those following two years I mean I would caveat that that that's based on our current working assumptions and we often talk about the implications of fair funding and what's happening in business rates so you know in finance we will certainly be keeping an eye on that as new information comes to about
I suspect that that Budget Gap my increase rather than decrease but at this stage we don't know so realistically we've closed 20 million of the 40 million that's what would be saying
Can I just add to that I think the fairer funding thing as a dormer
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:46:05
Michael were talking about earlier is a real and present danger and you know effects that 20 million in a totally unpleasant way and also just worth noting that some of the things that have happened this year in terms of grant and so on in a year by year like an adult social care and might not happen again so
the the the gap that we are talking about the remaining gap that were talking about is definitely at the figures that we got at the moment are the best case scenario I suspect rather than the worst case scenario
I think if I can just start I mean obviously that 20 million remaining is for two years so there'll be a third year to add to that which will probably over we haven't worked out figure for that book there will be a further year to out add to that people will go on and over time and there's Mary's as the Fair funding Review probably like to come in in 20 21 22 now and that could see a
movement of resources away from London and away from inner London and Kensington in particular
he started so I just one final point picking up on Mary's to achieve so what you do see the outcome of the draft settlement in here now actually we you know there was additional funding for social care that actually we weren't anticipating so it was very unclear but at year settlements so I think it's a five point 4 million for actually towards social care pressures at she those are some of the things that have helped us to each balance budget but the uncertainty remains that we don't know if they will continue into the future so so that you know the uncertainty really hasn't gone away but it has helped us to set hopefully almost a balanced budget for this year I'm but equally we know that that could be one off and it's almost giving us the extra time to have a more fundamental lacorte kind of how we want to come about our budget proposals you know what are those savings we can look at the services in more detail so it's given us that almost an extra 12 months to do some of that preparatory work
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:48:14
sorry I am beginning to sound like a broken record but I just want to
Cllr Sarah Addenbroke - 0:48:19
add to that
that with
adult social care
we have the CCG's going
from eight to one and we still
don't know the implication
and the consequences of that so that something needs to bear in mind
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:48:33
surely a tenant who won't per Appendix 4 on page 21
can you explain it as either I'm very thick or I just don't understand it probably the former but indulge me please
so and that the Larkin's defend or AlphaGo so essentially the fears that so when we set our Council Tax we set it on the equivalent at bandy kind of equivalents and say what this is showing is how the calculation was made up to come with at Band D so when we set our budget we base at that site council tax base that we base our budget on so essentially that is looking at what the total potential income that we could get from council taxes as her total own the total base in terms of the actual properties but what we
yes so either east numbers rather than money yet Zeta actual IRL cats tax households yet as opposed to the actual income that we collect yet
an essentially we were used at base in terms of setting the budget that will come forward on the 12th February sorry yes
but then that's one for next year to improve the presentation
can we move on to February 7
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:50:09
before we do so I just like to mention that all Leisure team have were e-mail task there I'm input into the exempt appendix and we have already discussed the exempt appendix so I don't a need to go into private session at all so with the agreement we will just take this in a concession and on the on the subject of things that can be improved On this the Portfolio Holder isn't Jim Crowley it is a Gerald Hargreaves so perhaps we could correct that and over to charity
given this really is just as the first stage of a formal process and would just ask him the issue of team to approve the first step of the
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:50:53
process to go out to tender to renew the the


the procurement strategy for grounds maintenance so it it's
as it is I really we just gotta go out when you permission to go out and Capita take any questions on this
there I
comment really I just wanted to come and I know there is some
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:51:17
discussion in the part B about ways that efficiencies or different ways of working which obviously a subject of negotiation and so quite rightly in Part B I just want to emphasise in the light of our previous discussion that all of these big re-procurment need to concentrate on saving money as well as improving and enhancing services and that has to run not as a kind of add-on afterwards as a really strong vein throughout throughout everything we do now and particularly letting contracts who spend a lot of our money through contracts and it's easy to forget how important they are to save his programme but they rarely really and I know that you know that but it would be really nice to see that reflected more clearly in papers in the public domain particularly in future
Cllr Sarah Addenbroke - 0:52:06
so I know our current contractor
has apprenticeships but I couldn't see anything in the scoping here for apprenticeships
so I just
wanted to ask
if you could make sure that included
the absolute specification has to be developed as part of this process but there is a whole sexual social values and when ships will be a key part
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:52:31
Terry under section 8 Procurement faith are currently only a few parks ground maintenance contractors working for London boroughs how robust is for market
a good question so we had some soft market testing we've got a number
contractors interested we are a kind of a flagship council when tens our parks so we feel we're confident in that we've got enough to make this a competitive process
we're not going to find the we only have a
a bit from the current incumbent away because that would be unfortunate because we want to needed to be why
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:53:11
totally agree so
we can't force people
to bid but we did have the soft market testing in that did
come up with at least three or four very interested partners
just Bridge I know you still haven't got the specification yet but as
Cllr Cem Kemahli - 0:53:32
this is a long term contract
and we have also recently made a Declaration on climate emergency
how will they be able to build in resilience to climate change the way that they choose their plants whether even allow areas to grow more rather than mowing etc is that something we can how much flexibility will we be able to build into this contract
I totally agree with you surround the emergency so we are built into the specification after use electric vehicles Electric tools such as electric leaf blowers
climate change around crime and plant maintenance is key as well so rather than the annual bedding plants we will look at innovation around sustainable prompting
and I note that you say in paragraph I point 3 event make all the
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:54:22
small plant and machinery and everything like that as green as possible yet so glad that theme was gained through are there any other questions
now thank you very much for coming today I think that we just need to agree the recommendations in paragraph 2 but just to note that
this is going to come back this is justice with flying cake just making us aware that this really big contract is coming up so
I bet you'll need for exactly OK so we are happy with the recommendations in paragraph 2 yes great thank you sir Any other
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:54:57
I have one item of Any other business


we've been in the small hall for about a year now but there are no window whose its rather bleak it's rather big and Alice and I'd like to suggest that we go to committee room 1 I think there's plenty of space in there with any member of the public wishes to come of course this is
a Council meeting held in public rather than a public meeting but there is enough spaces much more comfortable it's kind of cosier and their windows and natural light so unless anyone objects I would like to suggest that a good New Year New decade that we start the decade are next in a committee room 1 is that agreed agreed but will carry on with all the webcasts etc.
thank you very much and good evening