RBKC leadership team meeting 12th February 2020 - Wednesday, 12 Feb 2020 - 6.30 pm - The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

RBKC leadership team meeting 12th February 2020
Wednesday, 12 Feb 2020 - 6.30 pm 









Start of webcast
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  1. Mrs Anna Geenty
  2. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Anne Cyron
  2. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  3. Cllr David Lindsay
  4. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  5. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  2. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  3. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  4. Cllr Anne Cyron
  5. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  6. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  7. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  8. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  9. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  10. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  11. Cllr David Lindsay
  12. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  13. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  14. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  15. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Mary Weale
  2. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  3. Cllr Mary Weale
  4. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  5. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  2. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  3. Cllr David Lindsay
  4. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  5. Cllr Sarah Addenbroke
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  2. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  3. Cllr David Lindsay
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  1. Cllr Mary Weale
  2. Cllr David Lindsay
  3. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Mary Weale
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  3. Cllr Sarah Addenbroke
  4. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  5. Cllr David Lindsay
  6. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  7. Cllr Johnny Thalassites
  8. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  9. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
  2. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  3. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
  4. Cllr Gerard Hargreaves
  5. Cllr David Lindsay
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  7. Cllr Catherine Faulks
  8. Cllr Elizabeth Campbell
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  1. Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith
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  1. Webcast Finished

Mrs Anna Geenty - 0:00:00
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:00:03
welcome to Egypt in meeting this evening
as usual we will stand at a 72 seconds silence to remember those who died in the Grenfell tragedy and before we do can I just ask you please to check your mobile phones or iPads says nothing squeaks will Bébés thank you very much
thank you


but I don't believe any apologies for absence are there any declarations of interest though OK thank you are the minutes of the leadership Team meeting held on the 15th January are


could I please sign this as a true and accurate record
thank you
and now we go on to Item 8 for which is but the curve Community Centre and Calasso's special welcome for people who van come from the curve this evening
so an overdue
when any officers will want to consider them
team a team of officers


thank you and thank you again for me or for when he sums come specifically furt Forum the curve and this
I'm so I am sure everybody knows that the curve and was part of our
Cllr Anne Cyron - 0:02:59
response to and the tragedy and it opens in July 20 17 I'm and we committed to do a consultation to understand how the centre is being used and get feedback
and the consultation went on for a period of 12 weeks and we had a really great response and a lot of people who use the CAF
gave us feedback and this really is about making a plan to you know the future of the curve and and what's good and work on some of the things that you know perhaps needed some improvement so I think as part of this a paper that an action plan with clear guidance on what we will be doing
there will be some savings and you know this is not a savings exercise in any way in fact any savings that do come as a result of the changes that the community have asked us for War absolutely be going back to the recovery they're not going anywhere else sweating that's important too
understands and
I also want to thank everybody who contributed to the consultation because it really was a good response
and I would like to hand over to the community engagement team to perhaps talk a little bit about
the consultation on all sides sets a call-in view is just such a core part of what happens at the centre I think it's just ready further that they speak also but
I think it so I think it's a good report and I think it's a great action plan for the way forward
i'm yeah I think I'd start by saying thank you to the residents that gave their views during the consultation last summer we did manage to get a good spread of views both positive and negative but the majority of the views that we captured were in that middle ground where they gave really constructive feedback that we have acted upon and given a real direction of what residents want for the curve and I think those improvements have been picked up by the action plan that Callum has put forward
thank you know we are acutely aware that the centre of the curve is itself only has a right to exist for as long as the community wanted and as we proceed with the recovery efforts that services will need to change so we really valued the support of the
communication team in the consultation exercises Lorna said older people fed into that and I think it's clear that we have had a constructive feedback about things that we can do better in Kandy differently and I hope the action plan sets out what we will do I when and for the reasons why so hopefully that will shift and will be able to respond back to the community in good time saying in a you said we've done and then continue to listen
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 0:06:15
an office base wanted to thank everyone who has been involved in both setting up the Kovac call-in and the team also all in all of you who are here tonight who actually work and run there because I think it's fantastic surface whenever I go there I think it's a great atmosphere and yet says made a wonderful contribution to the community said that thank you all for doing that
and from my portfolio I think particularly the employer skills employment new thing is really fantastic and I mean the only thing that slightly surprised me was that that came quite low down in the list of options because I get such as a brilliant service but that's but either by so I was just going to ask him as a bit on four-point you 7 about evaluating the effectiveness of services and I just wanted with you it's fantastic the were agreeing to continue this but as Callum just said you know it will continue for as long as the community wanted but I guess there must be one bit as well wet which you know slightly Oscars is how ill so that is being effective in that community and that you know in in when the time the least comes up the in another two years hopefully there'll be a lot of other really good services and other good things going on so I wondered how you were thinking further on from the two years' time how your first will garner produce may be an impact report over the next two years and then how you are going to assess it
in line with whatever else will be going on in the community at that time
so I guess there's two points tonight so in regards to where we are now and what we could do better so over the last two and half years we've shifted from us deciding the Winyard's to or self organised and self or plans for services to join work closer and in a more collaborative way with our launches at partners to make sure that we are bringing in their expertise and one of the things then there's allowed us to do is to have a really wide breadth of different services that are available without as much as we can give young people a sense of stepping on people's toes when working with the community has been there for a long time and I think what we are trying to do the moment was captured in the action plan at the moment for me one of the weaknesses of the centre is we have a footfall data and qualitative data both coming into the centre and utilising different activities what we're not quite there yet now and Nina given what we've been with him I can understand but I think it is something we need to do is what serious impact that has not changed the house and because I think we are doing some some good work and we are in some regards lucky to have the investment that we have into a community centre given what many community centres in the country and in London see as I think it is incumbent upon us to make sure that we are making the most of them and I think part of that is by studies and partners really and analysing the impact but for that we need better data on the people who come in what their access him why and what changes makes him after a period of time
that that's definitely one of ministers
Can I endure for Catherine fed by way of introduction well done on
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:09:15
this and my question relates to the favoring that you are anticipating making an bullet point at the top of page 3 and then slightly expanded
at the on page three at 3 point for Can you expand a bit more on what the nature of those savings is an idiot all savings or is some of it new income and if so from wire
so etc three as you rightly point 3 5 4 or 5 24 Overview take through my for
200 thousand pounds savings from the employment income budget of event identified split across four main areas are three of them I guess you would call savings and the other is a revenue income to offset some of the costs so if I go through them the first wishes the or the odd one out which is revenue income is we are in a is not confirmed but we are quite far down the line in conversations with our NHS partners are significant partners who utilise the space about constitutents her the costs of the rent for the floor that partly because they have a at Unit like erm I to their own access are available for rooms of with 10 rooms on the second floor that sort of small rooms that can be used either for family interventions conversations whole range of things add five six of those rooms are for the NHS only Monday to Friday 2 there is that there is a sense there that actually they could help us to constitute some of those costs as well as we have opened the doors for them to offer Cam support there to not just the grant for health and wellbeing service becomes as well and also some of the
prayed for mental health services for some of the bereaved survivors who opted through that channel who also deliver from that floor so based on assertive equation of there of a hot toll of a whole their floor plate that it roughly as above 50 thousand pounds would be looking for the other three areas say one is around security so over the course of the last two and half years the Centre is changes have happened before before we used to have
people coming who
may be in heightened sense of emotion and totally understandable and while we do still have that every now and then some of the security presence that we have at the centre with heard through the consultation and we see ourselves can be quite unwelcoming and so I think it's about understanding and investing into the staff to make sure that we got a proper reception function and not relying on security so that in Inner because at the moment we have to so by reducing that by one that saves another 50 thousand pounds
the third area is round air staffing says nothing for the centre and again so the last time we design the structure for the staff who were based in the curve words when I took over back in August 2 thousand 17 and we developed a structure that an was fit for purpose for an emergency response centre where different people will come in for different reasons and you needed significant management cover for a course of appear at the time but you also need a posts that were may be running services has about long before we now relying on other organisations who deliver services with us before us so we should be allowed able to rely on some of their staff in her actually delivering services to provide the scope and support the average for having the service so what we are proposing which will start subjected I guess what happens now and is refreshing that structure AM and
perhaps bringing it back in line to the sort of shock she would expect to see in a community centre which was either has transitioned to
the last one she wanted
that's 100 50 yet say that the last
the last one is about services so we have the a service budget that we are able to commission different organisations we've had it for a while and we propose to make 50 thousand pounds of the savings there split into two different formats so on the one hand we have
for historical reasons paid out the kerb budget for complementary therapy at in The Cove but also am proved on the NHS a favour and we paid for complementary therapies at Exmouth surgery when they've had grown for clinics just as it is a legacy so as they have now deceased as you are now in a position to commission an equivalent service we would be paying for that animal and also we able to we think we're able to make their that the difference 35 difference by relying as I said on services that are funded from elsewhere but also through other parts of the Grenfell recovery programme for there was the projects fund or other forms of people activists only wants to deliver services in the kerb and they already have funding for it
thank you yes can I just add again to the thanks of tickly mustaf
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:14:04
either there's a suggestion here that better welcoming but I've never found that
just picking up on the Grenfell projects Fund or are we are you anticipating I'm hosting quite a few people from the fund
we do have quite a lot of opportunities at through the six defined outcomes that projects bedded fall at to provide additional services from the curse
I guess there's not are saying that they needed the net they need to deliver from us that was led the listed as part of the absolutely
thank you
and it's very small point on the findings
the reasons for never using
the curve
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:14:48
precept the numbers are quite small but it's interesting I didn't know I could use it and didn't know it was there I just think there's been a lot of information about it why you think how can we develop that and get that better
i'm suggests there's a couple of points so one is the service has been available and open to different people over the course of the time assisted so I can understand why some of the answers around his only four survivors and the bereaved or I didn't know I could use it I can understand why there comes to weave widen the SCAPE initially was for a smaller group than it was wider group announce even appointed for the across the Borough of people who need support so that that's the one hand the other is an in a while we've had great support from our are RBKC corporate comms teams some of the messages and the ways we need to put out messages I think could be better sourced and any action plan by us having our own non commentary but publicising events within the centre and making people aware of what's going on as an answer within the RBKC's main Twitter it doesn't always feel appropriate to be publicising a yoga class or this or that Africa so it's about having a side a unique
social-media presence yes but they now have


Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:16:08
title is not kept for
Campbell I forgot for me my microphone on the and say we are now going to look at adoption is a statement of community involvement and the appendices that are commented on in their report Ted sex are available in hard-copy here if anyone wants one otherwise you'll find them on line are there really just background papers to this report but in should anyone wish to see them they are available so Johnny can I hand over to police
are so this is the Statement of Community involvement which is of
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:17:59
course a statutory document are what it does is a kind of sets out are almost a minimum of the level of engagement that we won't see him Planning
and I think one of the things that's encouraging is that I think we have gone far beyond what the national statutory minimum would be this is a very ambitious document and I am particularly encouraged by the level of engagement that was so so we piloted Sincil of online engagement
through this process some we reached more than 100 thousand people
which for a document like this is pretty rare I was talking said to see Foster of director of planning matter and she said equivalent documents in other boroughs tend to get 20 or 30 responses and we had in the hundreds of something that's really positive about how many people are getting involved in planning and taking an interest in the process so I think that's the sort of the most important thing I think
in this document is just how many people and what a great level of of interest there has been less than with adequate information with me
I am not here
is excellent
he tells it all aspects of planning both development management and planning policy and Planning obligations and other things that we do so hopefully it is fairly comprehensive and is laid out in front of you so habits stately questions
if you have any questions just
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:19:27
interested distress' observation on the out everything is next and document I think it's how it's used is important and unrest insisted on the the consultation with residents so pays 31 Rick talks about other tax of developments and then paid 29 what can we expect from potential applicants and I guess I'm more concerned with the larger scale developments were we are encouraging developers applicants to get involved with residents
how are we going to monitor that and how we go and give an example in my own ward were after after real hard work we did get the developers to consult with the residents they sent as news letter out to the 10 red houses opposite the front door of the development and they said to me we've done it Councillor
that you know we just need to make sure that what is
in here the intent
in here which is great as actually executed there are more on the
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:20:23
larger developments yet another seems that one of the major sites in your ward is Lots Road and as a really good example of having on any names of where we want to engage her any positively so with something like that we are putting together things like a planning brief we've got a project board which I know that you are going to be participating in and I think that gives us the opportunity to have regular monitoring of how that engagement is going to pick up problems early
and to talk through issues with our residents as whistled beginning inserts a shape shape development in our in our areas and we are going to be looking to do similar things on what we've got a Project Board on Kensal that will be an SPD in time as well
I am very excited to do similar upon Earls Court in other places too
Cllr Anne Cyron - 0:21:11
i'm will thank you in and my question is about and pre-application I'm just because this is the kind of biggest area that I really get questions on from from my residents and there isn't a lot of detail in this section about it and I wondered if you could just talk a little bit more about
preapp and how he could see that developing and changing and improving so that we could get that community engagement and interest I guess transparency
so you say right we I think if you look at perhaps paragraph 6 point 4 of the adopted document re lay out the sort of principles of what we would expect but we also flagged up the we do need to develop more detailed procedure now we talk about Development Forums it's the way that we will deal with it and the precise procedure we have to have a template for how we do this in how we approach that so at the moment we're just
in the process of developing that we will probably have a cup of engagement discussions with you know residents that been involved previously as part of the preparation of this just to make sure that they are there fairly happy with the procedure but you are absolutely right we do need to flesh that out a little bit more we set out the principles quite clearly about what we expect but we do need to provide more detail I don't necessarily think it would be the right documents were put in here but we've we flagged up what we are what we're going to do I think we've made it quite clear also with smaller proposals are that we will expect I think a six point 14 where we we we talk about a expecting in over residents who are doing things like extensions of smaller applications prepare report to talk about who live consulted did they how did they respond to the comments I got did they change their scheme and if they didn't change their scheme why they didn't so I think that could be very much encompassed in a standard template that we can develop for them and so
one would hope although this is not something that we can statutorily require the every application that we come in as some sort of consistency in terms of how consultation or engagement has been dealt with and obviously that would depend on the scale of the development the Whittle about
so thank you it's actually a little bit of expense on that because
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:23:42
again I noticed oversee with your report you talked about in a trying to get away from use of jargon and giving people better access to the information which is certainly something that are often I local residents talk about your cinema how you might do this in a different way so could you just elaborate on your ideas of how we can address this and can you also incorporate in that again a general complaint is that perception that people have a tendency to put these things in on a bank holiday Friday or before the start of the holidays and Hankelow get the opportunity of commenting
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:24:17
well I suppose the whole thrust of the document is about an engagement rather than consultation so it's about having those conversations very early on
you know with residents and explaining to them in hopefully clear single simple language they can understand a bow or
what we need to do and why we're doing it and
as I said in terms of documents that we produce a void I mean the problems that the slight challenge we have is that planning use is as is very legalistic subject and the certain things that are caught certain I've got certain some certain names but I think we can easily get away from that and make it very clear simple language and you know even things like an detrimental to amenity will you know what the right is actually does that mean that nobody really understands what it be just say well actually you know causes harm and make it quite clear what we're talking about so I think we I think there's a danger that we end up as professionals going back on and you know it sometimes people write reports a thing or that looks really impressive as I've used some really big words here and we need to make sure that we are all times have very clear simple language and am when we write reports are very accessible to everybody and we've done a lot of work in his Department's try and make sure that happens that we do we do use plain English and that we just talk to people you know in a normal very accessible wire
I would probably just add that it's one thing that we do want to be
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:25:55
more direct with how we communicate Biddle says about doing it in new ways are so one of the good things about this document has this been done through a lot more sophisticated kind of digital engagement snap polls things like that and then harnessing new tech is something that we can start Start the Week and adapt to the way that people live their lives so everything's I QR codes or emerging of wooden application might look like you can really start to visualise it because I think what we want to get away from is planning being opaque and you can only know it if you can read the document and you've got a day or two to spend your life doing it I want people who are kind of commuting home or on the way back from work to be able to see on their phone in my God they're going to build new housing fantastic or my God they're going to pretend stories that I don't want that and you need to be able to give that kind of quick feedback are because that's the only way you're actually going to get what the community thinks if it's that time intensive and that resource and information intensive you'll only ever hear from a fairly narrow group of people and that homogeneity isn't good for policy-making either so it allows us to do things in a completely new way and I think that's really I think at the heart of the document
thank you slightly answered my question as well because it was under
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 0:27:09
the the notification methods and as it was interested in you serve a notice was placed in a local newspaper I wondered what local newspaper that was what you read zettel who gets applicable under when I there we have it
all those years and beyond
as my own will
agree that of course
I just thought I would draw your
and also there are
a following on from that was why you and you sort of answer that we are going to use social media more as well for a notification so like just a link for you because you have a Twitter account and you'd been so successful at reaching his hundred thousand are you going to use that same method to reach them with the applications as well
hum yet Stephanie something we can look out on one of the safeguards
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:27:53
in terms of doing this as well is that the hope that that hundred thousand people they were all in Kensington and Chelsea seek and geofence the way you promotes it and make sure you can only see it if you live work will earn in the borough I suppose if you're lots of commutes in from outer London as possible but the real thrust of it is that that's never going to happen in huge numbers are and we've got an opportunity now to reach people you would never otherwise reach through the planning process
I was just going to say on site notices were actually considering if we can just have an image for for the site notice cited having some sort rather boring site notices tied to a lamppost somewhere that we actually have an image one image of development so someone could immediately looked at it and go off you know what do I think that either I like hear all that looks awful and at least immediately it catches the attention rather than in a rather boring Site notice there's quite a few things as Systrom who said that that I think we can take
and with some of our current consultations has to pick up on your point about going back on social media you can look at the affordable housing consultation right now and our neighbourhood so one they're
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:29:00
both can be advertised as well as through the traditional means of consultation through things like Facebook Instagram next door so that whoever it is that you choose to get your news hopefully we're trying to respond to that
John Finnie talked about on paragraph 6 14 on page 31
about the
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:29:17
strong expectation that pre-application discussions should be taken and then in your last sentence you say the report will assist in determining the planning action application
and I just wonder whether failure to have a tad consulted and it on your ambit on your own
her application will result in an automatic or indeed you just don't get it this time
we enforce you can do that but I don't I don't think anyone's going to do themselves any favours at all if they decide to ignore or doing any consultation or put in as part of the planning application exactly how they consulted who they consulted how they responded to that because clearly that information in terms of members for the Planning Committee or indeed officers is going to be incredibly important because it's often your answer the questions
that people are gonna ask anyway so
Yes we can't make somebody do they spur they really
really not helping themselves
if they decide not to do it
K R O sorry
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:30:25
I am excited
and he can't be here tonight adversely on page 33 I mean it's really good that we are now talking about engaging with people earlier and getting residents talk to developers and etc but I'm Malcolm felt that there is actually in your diagram no mention of an kind of ward councillors and at the tone AM and also you know when you come down to site visits it would be quite helpful for the Ward Councillors to be involved
in the process of engagement
there are I was grateful to Malcolm for raising these environments
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:31:13
like Messi last night if these points and as I said earlier this is a minimum framework of how we want to engage who actually the reality of the on pretty much any sight of any interest to communities we are meeting with the Ward Councillors we are trying to meet with residents are so that Stephanie parts of the work they were doing and then
thinkers flag of Middleton
the Neighbourhood Plan and to what extent are we ready and encouraging and supporting and people to go down that route of a neighbourhood plan
yet moved this follows on from a question from at fluorescent appeals court here who came last night to implement Select Committee we were happy to reassure her that as we say in the document we are happy to support and facilitate Neighbourhood plans are obviously with that expertise comes via questions around how that will work and whether that's the results available at other resident level as well as at the Council level in order to take that interest in to develop over time but are commitment in the document is clear
i'm governing practical question this is an all singing old dancing I'm
a statement or Strategy across a wide a the what the wider Arena off of planning a and the first thing is I'm how do we resolve this because we have a whole plethora of strategies were people coming to the table and saying the same thing how we will how are we going to extra resources is like a cradle to the grave I'm scenario really a if if if if you read it and I've sat on many planning improvement groups over the decades and believe me it's really really difficult to make changes get them a get people to actually respond to those changes I'm but at the way the Council is trying to do so many strategies now at the one time
how we won't know until a year after perhaps but how is the planning department or a planning uncommitted engagement department how are they going to resolve this because this is not just a this is not just a one off this is going to be like forever
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:33:24
otherwise otherwise in a year's time we'll get some woolly report that tells us when
nobody wants that
not just this is a practical questions
On your right to vote her question and your right to Oscar it's a very good question
I think we have just gone through restructure in the Planning Department in order certainly now our processes and make sure the way looking at the spans and layers and making sure this focused at the kind of consultation and engagement we sat in this document says that reorienting departmental resources so that these kinds of projects and opportunities are taken as much as they can
an organisation see is a more staff a
it's it's the way staff are being directed to work and it's also about joining up so for instance all the work that Jonathan mentioned are around a different approach and chop jargon busting etc we've done in partnership with the Community engagement Team and Community Development officers so it's not just planning's role to be talking about place-shaping so that's part of their and also ensuring that where we use resources it's externally focused and not so much internally focused and that's review that Sue fosterers undertaken and and that's been signed off
we implement this this is a substantial
adapted to drive an apartment in terms of implementing this and can
I just make one comment path if you really want to go into lots of detail to be really helpful if you could go to the scrutiny committees where this is being talked about
I am sure you can get not anything to give him a lecture you could give them an offer guidance but it does mean that would be very helpful if you and your group were on scrutiny committees are do you
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:35:08
have any other questions now they ensure Johnny be happy to ask
you happy so I only happy to sit down with
Pat as well as if
he'd like to go from any other
come on board and tell us
are OK other any other any other questions Any other comments now I'm because I think this is a great document which has a great direction of travel as she said it aimed to make involvement in planning quicker easier and more accessible and wider so communities really feel that they do have a voice in shaping places and spaces said thank you very much for that and I also liked it other than I think that you are going to be the cheerleader in the Council for simpler English and engaging with communities or earlier so we're going to be looking to use for the insert practice so thank you and can we agree the recommendation in paragraph 2
thank you


I never come to pay the A6 are which is the Revenue Budget Capital Programme and Council Tax and I just like to comment or 400 Mary that actually this is the third time it's come to leadership team it's embed an iterative Pope process so you'll recognise most of the stuff in it are it has also been the overview and scrutiny committee and I believe their views scrutiny committees had a working party looking at aren't going to look at all in the round and then the recommendation is that we it then goes to the full Council meeting to approve it so Mary
lived here
but the detail has been here a number of times past the most important detail perhaps such as here for the first time is the firm recommendation for the level of council tax and as you can see where
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:36:59
recommending the maximum increase this year are of one point 9 9 per cent plus 2 percent are and that has been behind most of all
the Head of Planning figures so far but now it's a firm recommendation does want to say a lot because we've been through the detail quite a lot I dislike to talk a bit stand a bit back and and talk about firstly the consultation that's gone on with tried to make it broader and wider than before it's a work in progress we need to work on that sought the most fascinating subject of bully the budget but I would really welcome more involvement as we go through the process and part of that is making sure that our documentation not consultation is in clear English and clearly presented and again I am very open to any suggestions on that I don't think he ever see for their recommendations which as you can see we've accepted all responded to all of i'm and the IOC I think is going to keep working throughout the year keep a sub-committee
at the and I really welcome that because I think that's incredibly helpful to me anyway not the time trying to offload the job on to them but just to have that input and critical friend or not think Robert they can be critical more critical than that were whatever they want but I whatever it is it's a useful thing for us
and certainly
in the team is committed to starting the budget process the day after this budget for next year so that we really start early involve as many people as possible and plan ahead
and the other thing as best I won't say behind this is lies a lot of other things that are going on about trying to improve our budgeting processes and we've had lots of good ideas but an under financial control processes and things like our procurement all of which I hope will over the next couple of years put us in a stronger position to produce sensible budgets and just one other thing I'm just add this is the maximum increase to the AGM council tax and as we all note taxes like this fall hardest on the people who aren't well off and that is why we are committed to retaining as you will have seen the Council Tax always forget what is called
a because it called again for pork scheme thank you very much
at its at its maximum which not all boroughs do and I hope that our colleagues in Dorset approach that's my and I'm sure I'm happy to answer any questions on torn Micah hitter made me do it sensibly
just for the Council Tax
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:39:44
we build a commitment to be lowest quartile where does that put us now in the
in the running order who said
she post just that
she explained how much
cheap rather than well
I am not sure that about it be
about half at a very low
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:40:12
I think just to live at fifth around the bottom
so we could
so it is very very very quick when she was just a correction on a 10
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 0:40:28
point to arm that about the Morley College merger and in the papers it says expected to take place and happily did take place on February 3rd so if I could just crept up with on paper like
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:40:44
if there are no other questions that each team I liked faster chavira save she's got some comments I noticed there are some recommendations here
the working group to review the budget
process I'm I'd like to thank all the staff who came and gave us sort of detailed breakdown of what was going on in their department and also to am thank Mary I think it was really quite fruitful and I think yes we should start earlier next time and we will start the day after their the budget
thanks thank you
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:41:23
okay and any other questions
just like to reiterate what we've always had that actually we've got 40 million pounds to save over 3 years this is the first go at it
it is going to be tough there are going to be headwinds we don't about the fair funding formula we don't know about the effects of Brexit therefore we heard about what's going up with inflation several though made a really good positive start this here I don't think we should be under any illusion how how tricky this might be in the in the following two years to a very grateful for you to having a good solid budget this year and also with others with plans hurt for future years and also with plans for a lot of investment need of it
top Page 3 a huge investment programme that we're managing to two to carry on doing that despite the headwinds of wonder
now there is a whole host of recommendations and packed off to I'm
and eye and it's not for us to agree this now it's really forced to approve the Revenue Budget estimates for submission to the Council for the Council to approve of it at its full meeting those other ones unheard of to put one year we happy to neighbours and then if you turn the page to point to as another whole lot of suggestions which were asked to recommend the Council to agree those and does that include just for my clarity are Appendix 8 of the report the recommendations from the OSC as at agree unless regretting that
thank you thank you very much OK so now we move on please to


are a 6 1 which is Housing Revenue account budget for Kent
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:43:25
thank you again last was responsible for the apology Lisnafin dispatch that yes this one we have brought to a number of meetings erm
Good TCC scrutiny
and opposite that leadership I think a very very quick introduction
that a number of recommendations here our lights just touch on one to actually one is the rental increase and that this is the first rental increases for years I'm a wee because the rent has been going down by 1 percent each year
and we are seeking to increase it by to point 7 per cent mothers who were very conscious of the impact that that has on or residence but we think it's the right thing to do particularly given the pressure that the HRA's under
similarly there is a change in in tombs of the increase on all communal heating an artwork and also the basis of how that money is recovered and I think the important thing to note there is that obviously we have declared
our intention to be carbon-neutral it's very important to ensure that the basis of charging for our heating matches consumption and previously was done on an averaging basis are now will be very much an incentive for people to to control their heating and not control the heating by opening the windows but turning the thermostats down but get up just really hand over to Doug refers and fingers to expand on
you have taken forward to get the TCC
we've had comments back with her questions back with we've tried to answer those
this is what we're proposing for next year
are there any customers anyone and a surplus of David
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:45:16
can I off gum
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:45:19
what about the leaseholders can inflict on access to West estate on page 6 it says the increase in budget will allow us to replace windows so that every home
that include leaseholders
and then then
I thought you were taken a six-point 1 6 points at the same time that
make phone
when when you spoken can you turn your mic off and when you won't speak Newton on please
I was one paper had I thought we'd drinks A6 point 1 on a six point to simultaneously one
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:46:02
two other Any questions bearing minutes paper has been to the TCC in
through many iterations of the initiative but Sarah please
those really just to get some sort of feedback on what at what what
Cllr Sarah Addenbroke - 0:46:13
the outcome of the TCC meeting was with anything in particular they were concerned about
I think most people accepted that there would be a rent increase this year
and I think there is concern about how are we may that may move forward in future years and if you
there are two papers together a stage II sets her
I know
how charges might go up are in in future years to meet that demand so we have in our business plan and that's the main fundamental concern
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:46:59
the taken me a agree the recommendations in part of two
thank you and can we turn to paper A 6 2
which doesn't have a yellow line doesn't have a yellow sheet so you may find it quite difficult to find and once papers
thank you get out just give a very brief introduction this answers looking a having support back
management for Fozzard T and O is concerned this
plan reflects the pressures that we have


it covers the 7 year programme or capital programme will 267 million it also incorporates the refurbishment of Lancaster West and it also incorporates the new homes programme as well so there's a significant capital expenditure incorporated within the or this plan but again
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:47:52
I'll hand over to Doug if he wanted to highlight and expand on any issues
so are accurate to 6 7
is for some of our stock were doesn't include links to West and other aspects of we've had Shirley added to advertise are I'm told quite I'm told now to figures near a Free Free for in total if you add it will free up a wee committing
2 3 3 4 including like West
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:48:23
include everything outwitting yet as the chasm at expenditure so so to meet that obviously
original to 06 07 from from the from the stock condition surveys is the main substantial part of that
we have additional cost on meeting a zero carbon agenda we have additional costs and far safety
we have additional costs from
delivering ICT and so on and so forth so
in order for that to happen then there are the plan sets out what we need to do and and
borrowing requirement that goes with that
I and my colleagues were asking this question before he goes back to 2 leaseholders dog
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:49:15
can you get expand 5 point 3 as to whether
the increase in budget will allow us to replace window so that every home
and then the last bit of that sentence and new kitchens and bathrooms for the majority of tenants why not all and what about leaseholders
so it will include leaseholders windows Kerr's we own
the limpid windows or hours so it will be for every property and it's not for all kitchens and bathrooms because some are sourer resonance of have reasonably new kitchens and bathrooms already fitted
it certainly wouldn't yet
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:50:08
OK I believe are going to be debating this movie at the Council meeting certain discussing it so what we're being us tonight is to recommend to the Council that the whole Council approves the updated version of the Housing Revenue account business Plan including the planned approach to funding the 7 year capital programme but I think as Doug has highlighted it is actually a huge amount of money and it does reflect the significant under-investment in years of in previous years and we need to get it up to scratch


thank you very much so now can we please go to paper 6 3 which is the Annual Treasury Management Strategy Statement
are Mary
was under the umbrella of others to hear about trying to look in the
Cllr Mary Weale - 0:50:56
round about improving arm or reexamining our approach to two things that we do that affect the Budget and Treasury Management officers one of them and my thanked officers for the thorough review we've done this year too few remember last year we
we changed our approach only to go up to the maximum of what we could do having always stayed state of affairs of
below what we can do we've now in this Treasury Manager report suggesting that we are going to change slightly loosened those
parameters of a
lending out our money
but I don't think significant include said of recognising that we can put some Thai some money up for a bit longer and get a better return on it and I would like to thank all the officers involved in this review because I think it's a sensible departure without frightening me and given that I'm a big scaredy-cat when it comes to where I put my money that's that's fair enough so
Mike witnesses and he went to the until that
I have one question Michael it relates to the external borrowing
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:52:14
strategy on at 6 point 9
the gross debt
almost exactly doubles over a period of three years
from 2 thousand and 3 to 5 19
it earlier it says that interest rates are again expected below and in the event of him
a nasty exit from from Brexit they are likely to be lowered even further but I suppose they actually increase how much sensitivity analysis have you done
because it would have huge implications if interest rates were to increase to 5 percent or 7 percent
so I just wonder how much you've already done so that were that to happen
unlikely though it may be we know what
we be letting yourself in for
what it has to be affordable and we would fix the debt before we got to that point so that would be the way we would would deal with it
we don't do all the borrowing are long term at the moment because short term rates are are better but as we're if we see the rates are going up than we would fix the debt at that point I mean obviously the reason the main driver of that that is the housing increased spend on housing so it's necessary to fund that the HRA that you've just heard about there's not really an alternative but we would fix the that if we saw that there was a prospect of rates going up
very long term
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:53:44
are there any other questions Collins who is now a case networks and that things have changed for Council the reverse by my
the slippage
here are yes so it's if you look at the recommendations in paragraph to again where asking to recommend that the Council are looks at this and we have a fairer was open thank you
of k paper A 7
partially out turn from at Mary


Cllr Mary Weale - 0:54:24
on the whole as you can see are a thing is are then slightly improved in the last quarter in terms of
overspends are just bring your
attention ready especially powerful point 9 where you can see that there is an overall underspend here but that that is partly due to improvements in things like the Treasury Management which we have just discussed in that that's not really an underspend that's an over achievement of income
so in terms of budgetary management are that's not as bad as it looked at his Autumn in because that's a good uncontrolled are good or good change I'm and some underspends my are coming under better control during the course there are some overspends rather which is very good and well done
to colleagues and officers for
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:55:17
so I just like to flag up that obviously we haven't had the impact of
Cllr Sarah Addenbroke - 0:55:23
the flu season yet and of course we now have the threat of Corona virus so it is one flag that up
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:55:32
at the outset
can I just want to say that we have had informed families and children
Cllr David Lindsay - 0:55:41
services some money from the CCG's over that period 10 will show a lesser fare lesser deficit than currently shown
to manage to get money that they'll use eight-year
300 thousand
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:55:59
any other comments any of questions Pat
C 42 Planning and bird development sitting alone
overspend and it says that that is because
of a community engagement consultations a Planning Inspectorate clubs etc Thorpe and and of course the Bill a in in in this would be asked to to try to rectify that in a sense a national fight given the strategy we we talked about earlier this year this budget is going to need to inflate surely so this point out that this is direction to this
I repeat my request please pack can buckle scrutiny can point these things out when a junior you maybe you'd like to respond to that
but will return in the budget it's clear
nipples is the main thing it does talk about it's about under
Cllr Johnny Thalassites - 0:56:58
achievement of having come under that 9 so that that's by far is the overwhelming reason for the overspend actually the costs on additional administration which is something I think we would all welcome in the Council are it's pretty modest I'm the under achievement of income is because there are pure planning applications in the work he has yet and that's to do with the market are obviously in in the way that we go about our budgeting for the future we have to take into account that fluctuation in the market are that's not something we can control in quite the same way
to we
achieve your
did not
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 0:57:44
come in that part of that is surely about preparing the strategy and prepare in that document so it's a one-off cost in terms of the preparation that document
there won't be a recurring cost of nearly got the document
there will of course
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 0:57:59
times I think that the safety of my friends I do apologise
the recommendations on this are a paragraph 1 paragraph 1 1 5 1 fought back of one thing one 8 are you happy to accept
I'm these recommendations with a ruminative thank you
okay the final two papers tonight
if 18 08 and 08 09 have had an
exempt appendices but we have already looked at them and discuss them so there is no reason for anyone to have to leave the room we can take them in open session so are paper 8
is a I don't want to settle


this is a
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 0:58:56
this sets out the framework contracts that we wish to award for consultants to deliver a substantial amounts of are of the work that has to go together to TO two to get our capital programme delivered I do have a couple of staff members should I get any difficult procurement type technical questions are who may be able to help me are it as we move forward it's been am
we we set out a 12 lots are 10 of which were specialists for consultants and consultants helpers are
undertake the surveys right the specifications do the cost cost analysis and and put the contracts together in A E in in inner in or in a way that we want as we need them and we need that time to make sure that we deliver the capital programme so the Framework contract went out in in August end
was evaluated
just not until we just before Christmas
and this is the results that we wish to award 9 lots
ar an award of a lot does not guarantee any work it gives us the scope and flexibility to allocate work over the next four years is what which is what we need
when I need to say though and are is I did get an e-mail today and I do have to say this because
in section 7 it sets out a way that would be working with the Procurement panel
basically over the last 12 months plus R and A procurement map panel was made up of members of the tenants Consultative Committee who represent residents as part the resonance association so five members of the panel are sent an e-mail to me today to advice to want me to advise leadership team are
to note that they did not wish to be referenced as being consulted
in this matter are primarily
because not all the information cause for Framework contrast quite quite large was shared and gone through in advance for going out and
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:01:14
that was back in back in the summer but
it hasn't run super smoothly we've had turnover of staff and so on and so forth so I can see that we could do better
in our engagement are but we've kept it going and we continue to keep our procurement panel going where we share what we're doing is not just the Framework as other other areas of procurement that that happen and indeed we took this draft paper to become a panel on the 28th January so
whilst I am personally disappointed it tells me if I need to do better to win on hearts and minds and that isn't the full amount of procurement panel where or or a many more members than there was at least double the amount of Members had come regularly for La Turbie said I would make that clear enough I have
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:02:02
11 thank your honesty and I think sometimes we don't get things was right but as long as we are always trying to improve and playing in the right direction and said just a pity that we got five residents who are disappointed in the process I it's for a huge amount of money isn't it
when one half a million pounds so are there any other questions
or just yours Page
3 and were slightly suspicious when you see a list of figures add up
Cllr Gerard Hargreaves - 1:02:33
perfect tumour two-million wandering in one man like never quite like that might mean that the maximum land allocated that we might want to draw down from it all hundreds of hours of work to do to come up with exact figures letter
o the this is the amount of but this Budget EIA
was correct
yet for some of those figures him eventually will be maybe less than that who absolutely
at the outset
that again yet
i'm dug are
paragraph 6 point fall
Cllr David Lindsay - 1:03:08
the numbers of
submissions received and tenders fully evaluated with that many few or as expected
we didn't know where I am
where markings can because a lead-in time takes a good six months
we actually ended up
going out with submissions due back towards the end of October and as you can imagine what October was like
we know we've got to leave on the 31st it was quite a lot of uncertainty in the construction industry so
Cllr David Lindsay - 1:03:51
yes that's you you don't know we didn't meet her no Christian ought to be able to tell us that was going to going to happen at that particular time so but it wasn't as bad as as it could have been so are that that route yes we would have always liked more morbid
and just following up on that and so under 11 and 12 you failed to get any submissions received so what happens in that case you have to go out to tender again or of
what you so I may defer to one of my colleagues but I believe we've
Cllr Catherine Faulks - 1:04:25
brought somebody expertise in-house
the Authority
will be gods and the not very convinced I beg your pardon the multi-disciplinary I'm firms at the top are and will be able to cover all of the areas of specialism so we've got the to the multi-disciplinary is and then we'd broken down into specialist ones
if any up too much yes yes North and South
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:05:10
any other questions about sorry Gordon wants to to asked Koecher
that's very helpfully adhere
to so there have been difficulties in so far as people have come and gone and we had people
promise things that perhaps they shouldn't have promised but I think what's important to understand is that the procurement team has been reflects able and has had to me very quickly and has had a very complex job to do and so we can't as residents be all be consulted on every decision making and so as a resident has been on that panel would also like so there's not the majority
I think the procurement team have done a fantastic job
thank you for
and what we need to bring
back lost my page are
recommendation set with delegate
but I believe are delegated approval to award the following construction costs are related professional services contract as set out except
appendix to the direct for Housing Management said correct we have various the matter of leaseholder consultations so should the leaseholder consultation be against our ward
we would probably be having to come back to that
thank you very much
Cllr Elizabeth Campbell - 1:06:42
for it and settled valley a hunter paper A 9 then it's a new letting


will again leave discuss this them
on camera
I get it so a letting of a
Cllr Kim Taylor-Smith - 1:07:05
let's not usage Dawn Sloane Avenue
and letting restaurants on so
to apologise Sire De apologising for the new letting on a an empty unit on 50 Sloane Avenue
it's fair to say that trying to let rest on Sloane Avenue at the moment is quite tricky
and the terms of the letter letting reflect that it's a or an existing operator the covenant is not very strong were getting a deposit and their fitting that the restaurant outlet I think it's explained within the
terms of the three-year the paper
Mary Amy wants to had nothing to do with the terms or anything that just as ward councillor I'm pleased it's been let because
Cllr Mary Weale - 1:07:57
this is a funny area shopping area and just anything that animates certain adds to the vitality of the street as Sir as we all know is got Pickard thing so well done
drainage and agree the recommendations in paragraph 2
thank you if there is no as there isn't any other business


I would like to declare the meeting closed but perhaps we could look at all might funding so I think it's going to drive us absolutely mad because I can't manage to turn them on and off at same time but I don't know whether there's a different system we could possibly use